Island start

[aelf]

After winning my 1st monarch game quite easily with Catherine, I decided to be brave and try Cyrus, who don't really suit my style. As usual I play pangea, 7 AIs, standard map on standard speed.

I thought the settings would allow me to have an early immortal rush and cripple one potentially annoying neighbour and strengthen my empire asap. However, I got a very strange island start (considering it's pangea). I started on a ribbon island, one in a chain, that had room for two core cities. There's more room to the west, and there's a link with the continent to the north, but these were blocked by individual impassable mountains.

It seemed like a bad start (esp. for Persians?), but I saw clams and fishes around my island, and i was tempted to try this interesting game. I got BW first to chop rush (since I judged I needed to be fast to compete with the continental folks). There's one copper near my capital, so that's good. Then I went for sailing to get galleys out asap to expand to the other islands. By the time I got it I found out enemy borders were not far off.

After sailing, I tried to see if I could get Immortals to hopefully capture a city a neighbour might place within my reach (since there is a limit to how many cities I can settle on the islands). Since it's still quite early, I reasoned that it's likely he would only send one or two archers to defend a small border coastal town. Better capture one enemy city first, get a doorway to the continent and then settle any other island spaces I haven't settled at my leisure. I researched husbandry and spotted a horse resource on another island south. So far so good.

I settled a city to claim the horse. That island had room for one more city, and I would take my time to settle that. West, on the blocked off portion of the mother island was a coastal barbarian city that was reserved for me. Seemed good.

Soon after I built a couple of immortals, Huayna Capac, who had settled a city in the blocked off link to the continent north of me, declared war. I sent three galleys carrying three immortals and three axemen to land on the forest beside that new city. Huayna pillaged one fish resource while I was sending the troops, but I managed to wipe out his galleys after that. I took his city with the loss of one axemen, after which I sent more from my capital to help defend it.

A few turns later, Huayna paid me gold for peace. It was looking great. I built the Great Lighthouse at my capital, and by then I had switched to Hereditary Rule and Caste System. When I could I chose Bureaucracy and Theocracy.

Caste system allowed me to put scientists in my capital. I already got one great prophet early on from Stonehenge and he's helping to add my income as a super specialist in my capital. I was a bit behind some civs, but I could catch up. The ex-Incan city gave me two dyes and one incense and I fortified a lot of units there to keep the doorway open.

I built the Colossus and was researching comfortably at 90% with six cities, having settled one more city on the southern island and taken the barbarian city gradually after the initial war. All were coastal cities and I was enjoying a great boost from the Great Lighthouse. I had a great merhcant and an academy in my capital as well now, and another academy at Pasargadae later. I was planning on a strong navy and irresistible amphibious assaults with marines in the future to raze enemy coastal cities and cripple them. And, to help, I circumnavigated the globe!

Then, I realised I couldn't build crossbowmen and pikemen without iron. Weak point! Nobody wanted to trade me iron. I was friendly with Mao and with Huayna Capac, having switched to their religion, but not great with everyone else because I refused their unreasonable demands. My confidence had been boosted after kicking out Napoleon's invading force with no loss to myself, and I didn't want to listen to that biatch Catherine's demands. Mansa Musa was pissed after I cancelled all deals with him at Catherine's (whom I couldn't afford to piss off too much too early) behest.

Well, anyway, Catherine eventually declared war on me and took my doorway city in two turns with knights and crossbowmen. I bribed the Chinese to help me, but they didn't do anything to save my city (they only took it from the Russians after that and didn't want to return it to me), and they were eventually losing cities themselves. Mansa Musa and Isabella also declared war on me, and the combined three AI navies kept wiping out mine. Catherine beat me to Liberalism by a few techs and basically I was hopeless.

I have three saved games here. One is the initial save, the second is a save taken from my 'golden period' and the third is the final save before I gave up on that game. Can anyone think of some way to save the situation, from any of these points? Was war with Catherine to be avoided at all costs? But she would out-tech me by far anyway, at the rate it was going. Thanks lots!

[Matthevv]

I had a little look at your first two save games, played the start a bit. One comment I would say is that you shouldn't have founded the first city where the setter started. Its on top of the only place that you can put a farm on that isthmus! I would have moved my settler to on top of the plains-hill two squares to the east, or to just west of the corn resource to the west. The two moves wouldn't have made a huge difference given the benefits of those locations. Also your city to the south should have been on the island next to the fishes, allowing another city on the west of the big island at the south. Your western-most city is too close to the Barbarian city, and has no special resources. Do all your cities have walls? Those really make a difference. I won't comment on your tree-chopping, except to note that your capital has a green face. You did get some wonders though.

Taking just one city as you did wasn't a good idea. Although you do have one more city, you then have an angry neighbour, who isn't significantly weakened. If you didn't have the units to launch a serious attack and take that Civ out of the reckoning you would have been better nobbling the barbarian town earlier instead, and saving maintenance costs on the units. Having taken that city, you should have rushed every cultural building in it to increase its defences as it is an obvious target.

From what you wrote I can't work out your strategy. Do you plan to conquer? get seriously cultured? Win the space race? You head for Liberalism, presumably to get a free tech, but thats a high-risk strategy, as you lose, and you need to get to muskets/grenadiers/frigates ASAP to be able to defend yourself. Your diplomacy seems inconsistent, as you have + and -1 for paying tribute to the same Civ.

[aelf]

I was aiming for spaceship, actually, hoping to be lucky enough to get aluminium on one of the islands, or by capturing a colony with marines. Yeah, I realised that was fat hope. Diplomacy wise, I had no idea whom to befriend and found too often that my friend was another friend's enemy and my enemy my friend's friend. No idea yet who was gonna be strong when I had to make some early decisions. I guess diplomacy wasn't the way to win either, since my population would not give me nearly enough votes. Winning on culture on those islands with Persians seems a bit far-fetched.

Anyway, I played the game again from the start, and I got to a much better position. I changed my city-placing and indeed it improved the game a lot (although I didn't really follow your exact suggestions). I was only seriously out-teched by Catherine, but I had nice cities with a few ancient wonders and I was rich. Nobody attacked me, any enemy having to cross the sea, which seemed to much of a bother to them although I didn't try to please anybody. I was really set on space, which I might be able to get... Until I found out there was no aluminium on my islands or nearby. End of game.

Can an island start on pangea/continents produce a win on Prince and above?

[Matthevv]

Well, the island start on continents can certainly be won on up to Monarch by going for a cultural win (and probably on higher levels too). Ancient wonders and nobody attacking you gives you the a good situation. Being Persians wouldn't be too much of a problem. The small size of the islands is a bit of a drawback for building the necessary cultural buildings, but with the colossus giving you excellent commerce you could use the culture slider to boost culture, and all those fish would allow you to employ artists too.

It sounds as though you were a bit unlucky, not having any aluminium. Small islands would always be a problem from the possibility of getting resources, and it often isn't feasible to trade it.

Diplomacy win is tricky, really its not possible without being warlike. You have to get in a gang with a couple of the stongest Civs that have good relations then, go to war with whoever they go to war with, and never trade with anyone else so that you get the friendly relations. Then you need to (with the help of your friends) reduce the size of any Civ that isn't your friend until you have enough votes. Often, though, there is such a complex set of relationships that it isn't possible.

[aelf]

Well, another time I get such a start I'll try for culture. I thought not having any artist-inducing wonders, even if they are early, would be a problem. And the Colossus did not seem to make that much of a difference. Not sure if I should risk getting attacked by a more advanced civ and favour the culture slider over research for the small advantage it gives me.

[Matthevv]

Originally Posted by aelf

Well, another time I get such a start I'll try for culture. I thought not having any artist-inducing wonders, even if they are early, would be a problem. And the Colossus did not seem to make that much of a difference. Not sure if I should risk getting attacked by a more advanced civ and favour the culture slider over research for the small advantage it gives me.

At least the way I play it, I find the Great Philosophers the key to the cultural victory, rather than the artists, as they increase your production and commerce, and you can build their shrines. You should be aiming to found 3 religions, and with the shrines, you can get many Philosophers. The extra production is particularly useful, as you are building lots of buildings and wonders.