WAR, and the ai

[BLOODYBATTLEBRA]

Just wondering what the a.i s thinking is when it goes to war.

Obviously, if you are a weakling and trailing behind then you are a plump target (although various game reports show that you can get by like this-see the guy -Kylearan?- who won a deity diplomatic? victory without building a single warrior...)

but does the a.i consider going to war if you are slightly, but clearly, ahead of the pack, i.e. a war in order to drag the leader down?


I ask because I just moved up to Noble, playing as Cathy I was ahead in wealth, area, military and production when the WEAKEST civ there declared war on me. It didn't help thing that the weakest Civ happened to Montezuma!!! He invaded and I counter invaded. He used his best units in his invasion, I just mounted an armed scouting force rather than an invasion perse, in order to try and cut off his iron, horses etc.Both our incursions failed. Technologically we are on par but my military industrial complex eclipses is. I will win this war even if it's just through attrition, and assimilate his empire into mine.

HOWEVER, it's 1000 ad (war has been raging for 200 odd years) and I am second from last in the scoreboard. Ordinarily, I'd be expecting the other civs to jump on my weakened carcass, but I am still so strong that they haven't. I'm worried that even if/when I do destroy Monty, I'll be so far behind that victory will be impossible.

Your advice?

Also, this is the nth game in a row where bloody Montezuma picks on ME, even if I far outclass him, yet will ignore a civ that is nearer to him, is weaker than him etc etc.


What gives?

The only thing worse than having Monty near you is starting on a continent with him, Alex and Nappy...

[cymru_man]

Monty is very aggressive. He'll often attack regardless of how strong you are. However, it is very possible to get him on your side by attacking the same target as him, he seems to favour war and those who help him get in his good books

As for the AI..they'll invade because you're weaker, they'll invade because you're stronger, they'll invade because someone else just invaded you, they'll invade because they're ASKED to invade you, they'll invade because you're a different religion, or you attacked their friends, or you even traded with their enemies, or you refused to help them 2000 years ago in their last war, you refused to cave into their ridiculous demands, or even because you just happen to be on the border.

So be ready for war. It's gonna happen, if it ain't Monty it'll be someone else..

[Myxer]

This is actually one of the things I like about Civ4 is the leaders do have behaviour that they adhear too. Monty you can be sure will invade you, no matter what. In my current game, I converted to his religion, had open borders, was easily the most powerful military in the game, had great trade relations with him, and he still came after me. It's just Monty's way. Same with Issy, if you don't share her religion, you can bet the farm she'll come looking for you. I like having leaders behave a certain way, adds a touch of realism to the game. If their personalities were always random (this is an option) what's the point of playing against them, then they just become a set of pixels. just my babbling 2cents.

[pholkhero]

It seems like it's Monty that is the problem here, not the AI in general...as ppl have said, he's always ready to 'throw down'

btw, Kylearan (sp?) also just finished a game with 0% science (for the most part ~ nabbed worker techs)

[maltz]

Hm.. do you have a previous save that you can Bribe Monty to go after someone else? That will solve your problem.

[tombeef]

it looks like you should probably go all out domination victory, take each civ down one at a time. Don't worry so much about the scoreboard, it's not the most accurate reflection of how well you are doing.

[Mutineer]

Well, AI think like a person in a way. Sertan kind of person. You look strong, but you are military untested and potential plunder is rich. I am last anyway, I have nothing to loose, let get you!

[kamigawan]

I gauge probability of attack based on four core factors:

1) Perceived relative military strength, both overall, and in specific weak target cities

2) Diplomatic relations, especially cautious or worse

3) Leader personality, notably isabella, alexander, napolean, montezuma, tokugawa, khan. In addition, certain unpredictables such as Louis XIV, Catherine.

4) Territory situation - no more room to expand, and convenient targets, i.e. neighbors.

edit: i can count!

[Willem]

Originally Posted by BLOODYBATTLEBRA

It didn't help thing that the weakest Civ happened to Montezuma!!!

Monty always declares war, he's just crazy that way. Napolean is kind of like that as well, though not quite as bad, and so is Alexander. And Isabella is like that if your religion is different from hers.

[atreas]

I gave another look at the XML files, and I think there are some parameters (except relationship) that play part in declaring war by AI. I don't claim I know precisely what is meant by each one of them, but I can make a reasonable guess based on the name and the results I have seen in my games.

The parameter pair iMaxWarRand - iLimitedWarRand is IMO an indication of how easily AI will go to a "random" war. I list the values for some representative leaders to get the idea:
Monty: 50 - 40
Alex: 50 - 40
Genghis: 50 - 40
Napoleon: 100 - 40
Luis: 200 - 60

Gandhi: 400 -200

The parameters iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio - iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio reflect how the leader will access relative power in order to go to war, depending on whether it's a "close" or "distant" war. The higher the values, the more "bravado" AI attacks will be. For example, Isabella has a pair of values 130 - 100, which means she will attack even if she sees you have 30% more army than her. Other leader values:

Monty 130 - 80
Alex 90 -70 (he plays it "safer")
Genghis 120 - 90
Toku 100 -100
Napoleon 120 - 100

But, of course, this is affected by some more parameters: the main one is the parameter iBuildUnitProb, that reflects how many units this leader will build - here Napoleon (40) is first, followed by Alex, Genghis, and Monty (35). Of course, it's extremely tough to try to build as many units as these guys in higher levels (the tech guys will fly away in techs in the meantime), so you will easily "fall back" in power - hence the early wars.

The parameter iLimitedWarPowerRatio is IMO a "barrier" of relative power above which AI will never go to war. The more "bravado" guys are (with a value of 130) Alex, Genghis, Luis, and Monty. Immediately after them (120) follows Kublai, Napoleon, Mao, and Peter. On the antipode - Gandhi has a value of 80.

[Crighton]

Originally Posted by Myxer

I converted to his religion, had open borders, was easily the most powerful military in the game, had great trade relations with him, and he still came after me. It's just Monty's way. Same with Issy, if you don't share her religion, you can bet the farm she'll come looking for you.

That, in his and my eyes, just made your empire more easily assimilate-able.


It's not through your enemies that you learn to build high walls, but through your firends.

[voek]

Trust your enemy's, since you know they'll attack you, but fear your friends, since you don't know when they will stab you.

[BLOODYBATTLEBRA]

But the silly boy just shot himself in the foot, and Washington is now racing away.


I guess what I am asking is why he bypassed a weaker more juicy civ to come after me.

It's 1000 a.d. and continents. Domination would, I imagine, be very difficult.