Fall from heaven strategies and tips

[naf4ever]

Originally Posted by nealhunt

Incidentally, what is the mechanism for capturing slaves?

In my last game, I ended up capturing probably a dozen slaves. By that point I already had most of my development done and was capturing cities that had developed land, so I had no use for them. But I'm thinking that there might be a strategy to build around going to war early to capture workers and slaves.

You have a 25% chance to create a slave when in the slavery civic anytime you win combat against a unit. Also you do know you can sacrafice these same slaves for 15 production each when making buildings or wonders right? And even though its expensive, if you have gold to blow and the city has an Asylum you can upgrade slaves to Lunatics which is kind of cool.

[naf4ever]

Originally Posted by nealhunt

Personally, I think the Hero promotion may be overpowered.

In one game, I pumped out an early Hero (Bambur, maybe?), stuck him in a stack of medics (whichever religious unit I was able to build) and proceeded to romp across the board. City Attack straight through to III in no time, then Cover because the primary defenders were archers, plenty of time to pick up Shock before facing axemen, then combat I-V before it was over. Somewhere in there I picked up March and was able to heal totally between cities without stopping.

It was pretty sick that a stack of 4 units or so was able to wipe out 2 civs and the biggest thing slowing them down was that I misjudged the effectiveness and couldn't build follow-on units to garrison the cities as fast as I was taking them.

FfH is inherently a bit easier against the AI due to how complex many of the new game functions are. The AI doesnt utilize them the best. As a result I usually play on one difficultly level higher than i would vanilla civ. You should try it, it makes it much more challenging.

[tombeef]

hey, what's everyones favorite religion? I like Runes of Kilmorph because of the money. It seems all the AI usually end up with Leaves or Overlords. Any thoughts?

[CurtisC]

Originally Posted by tombeef

The only problem is it leaves the Archmagi somewhat vulnerable, but aren't they always?

The best way to deal with this is to build an acolyte (temple of the veil required) then give them the movement 2 promotion, then upgrade them to an archmagi.

This allows you to move your archmagi with your werewolf stacks.

[CurtisC]

Originally Posted by naf4ever

FfH is inherently a bit easier against the AI due to how complex many of the new game functions are. The AI doesnt utilize them the best. As a result I usually play on one difficultly level higher than i would vanilla civ. You should try it, it makes it much more challenging.

Yeah, I always run into a wall trying to go harder than emperor though. The high barb levels keep my lucky to even survive in immortal. In 'nilla civ 4 I can normally put up a pretty good showing in an emperor game. But in FfH I pretty much can dominate if I can survive the barbarian King spawn. Next time I play I'm going to start a diety game, and just blatantly cheat at the outset and give myself an axeman or something to hold my starting city. If the AI can survive the barbs it should be a good game.

[CurtisC]

Originally Posted by tombeef

hey, what's everyones favorite religion? I like Runes of Kilmorph because of the money. It seems all the AI usually end up with Leaves or Overlords. Any thoughts?

I always try to go for Runes of Kilmorph both because of the Iron gaurantee and the early heros. If I'm playing a financial leader I'll frequently make a bid for the order or the veil after building the Mines WW. The veil provides an awesome research bonus with all the research boosting ww built in the founding city.

I never go for OO. When you are playing with raging barbs on a highlands map the last thing you are thinking of on round 60 is sailing.

Going for leaves can put you in a good position for getting the Baron out pretty early. It's totally worth it, but pretty difficult to do: tracking and hunting are both expensive techs, and abandoning bronzeworking is a pain (although totally viable w/ Elven archers). It would be better if the Elven archers could get the city defense promotion.

[nealhunt]

Originally Posted by naf4ever

You have a 25% chance to create a slave when in the slavery civic anytime you win combat against a unit. Also you do know you can sacrafice these same slaves for 15 production each when making buildings or wonders right? And even though its expensive, if you have gold to blow and the city has an Asylum you can upgrade slaves to Lunatics which is kind of cool.

Thanks for that. I had no idea that you could burn slaves for production or make them into Lunatics.

FfH is inherently a bit easier against the AI due to how complex many of the new game functions are. The AI doesnt utilize them the best. As a result I usually play on one difficultly level higher than i would vanilla civ. You should try it, it makes it much more challenging.

Yep. That's the plan. But my objection to Hero was really based on the overall power level of multiple bonuses stacking.

Basically, because the combat resolution calculations effectively work off of a ratio, there is a "tipping point." The effective strength of the defender plummets if the strength of the attacker is higher _and_ the attacker has a positive modifier. Normally, the attacker's strength is higher than the defender, so once the Hero's total promos exceed the defender's bonuses they become extremely dominant very quickly.

[tombeef]

Originally Posted by CurtisC

I never go for OO. When you are playing with raging barbs on a highlands map the last thing you are thinking of on round 60 is sailing.

Going for leaves can put you in a good position for getting the Baron out pretty early. It's totally worth it, but pretty difficult to do: tracking and hunting are both expensive techs, and abandoning bronzeworking is a pain (although totally viable w/ Elven archers). It would be better if the Elven archers could get the city defense promotion.

Totally agree. I just don't like OO when there is so much early emphasis on barbarians, and then getting all the units.

Also, what does everyone think of the seafaring trait? I never use it unless I'm playing an archipelago map. On those it's really good, huge cities are easy to get. But on most maps it's useless I think.

You know what, I think I'm spending too much time here. Time to boot up FfH.

[CurtisC]

Originally Posted by nealhunt

Basically, because the combat resolution calculations effectively work off of a ratio, there is a "tipping point." The effective strength of the defender plummets if the strength of the attacker is higher _and_ the attacker has a positive modifier. Normally, the attacker's strength is higher than the defender, so once the Hero's total promos exceed the defender's bonuses they become extremely dominant very quickly.

I'm not sure when this kicks in, but at some point the AI will start assaulting your heros with assasins, saboteurs, etc. Really the best way to deal with heros.

If the AI is too dumb go higher in difficulty level, or give them a few extra units in worldbuilder.

[Nikis-Knight]

Originally Posted by Nikis-Knight
If near the coast, I go for octopus overlords,,,

Why is this? Unless your seafaring I was under the impression there were no bonuses to working sea tiles from the octopus overlords religeon.

Half for the feel, half because then the sailing and fishing prereqs will be useful then. And in future versions, half because Drown will move on the coast.

[Mesix]

Originally Posted by chocmushroom

I'm not sure about this, I do send my settlers out with my wolves & other animals as they are cheap defence, but after I found my city I build a warrior, then I use the animals to put on a show (eg Lion cage). I find this the cheapest and easiest way to start generating culture, as it's free, so you can spend time on getting different city improvements

I have played this mod several times with many different settings and have never captured even one animal. I have read that many pople like this feature and tried to do it, but to no avail. By the time I get the technology and a unit upgraded with the ability, the animals are gone from the map. I see a lot more human barbarian units.

Maybe I need to turn the dufficulty back down a bit to get it to work.

[Mesix]

Originally Posted by CurtisC

I always try to go for Runes of Kilmorph both because of the Iron gaurantee and the early heros. If I'm playing a financial leader I'll frequently make a bid for the order or the veil after building the Mines WW. The veil provides an awesome research bonus with all the research boosting ww built in the founding city.

I never go for OO. When you are playing with raging barbs on a highlands map the last thing you are thinking of on round 60 is sailing.

Going for leaves can put you in a good position for getting the Baron out pretty early. It's totally worth it, but pretty difficult to do: tracking and hunting are both expensive techs, and abandoning bronzeworking is a pain (although totally viable w/ Elven archers). It would be better if the Elven archers could get the city defense promotion.

I totally agree with this. In addition to getting the city upgrade, it would be nice if they could be upgraded to a more powerful unit later in the game. Having elvin archers with a combat value of 3 is pretty useless once standard units have 7 or more.

[azzacanth]

Originally Posted by Mesix

I have played this mod several times with many different settings and have never captured even one animal. I have read that many pople like this feature and tried to do it, but to no avail. By the time I get the technology and a unit upgraded with the ability, the animals are gone from the map. I see a lot more human barbarian units.

Maybe I need to turn the dufficulty back down a bit to get it to work.

I have that problem, too. I finally figured out what I need to do for it (combat 1 + subue animal, which is animal husbandry) but even then I am lucky to get a couple animals before they are all gone. And then I can't get them home again either because of all the barbarian warriors and stuff in the way.

[Mesix]

Originally Posted by azzacanth

I have that problem, too. I finally figured out what I need to do for it (combat 1 + subue animal, which is animal husbandry) but even then I am lucky to get a couple animals before they are all gone. And then I can't get them home again either because of all the barbarian warriors and stuff in the way.

Yes, I know how to upgrade to the subdue animal feature. The problem that I run into is that by the time I do this all of the animals are pretty much gone already.

[CurtisC]

Originally Posted by Mesix

Yes, I know how to upgrade to the subdue animal feature. The problem that I run into is that by the time I do this all of the animals are pretty much gone already.

Hmmm? By turn 20 or so (assuming animal husbandry is your first tech) you should have no problem finding animals. Sometimes I have too many to know what to do with.

If I'm near getting animal husbandry I'll often save a promotion for a quick conversion to subdue animals.

Also, animals stick around much longer (seemingly) in 0.95g I've captured animals on turn 300 (on emperor). So I doubt it is your difficulty level.

[Mesix]

Originally Posted by CurtisC

Hmmm? By turn 20 or so (assuming animal husbandry is your first tech) you should have no problem finding animals. Sometimes I have too many to know what to do with.

If I'm near getting animal husbandry I'll often save a promotion for a quick conversion to subdue animals.

Also, animals stick around much longer (seemingly) in 0.95g I've captured animals on turn 300 (on emperor). So I doubt it is your difficulty level.

I always start in the stone age, so it takes me awhile to get animal husbandry. Maybe if I start in a later age I will be able to try this feature out. I think I will try than when I play me next game.

[azzacanth]

You should be able to get the tech right away. I'm confused. Animal husbandry is one of the starting techs, its what allows you to make pastures to collect your cows or sheep. Are you thinking of the techs that give units like hunters, etc who start with subdue animal?

[Kael]

Originally Posted by CurtisC

Speaking of which, shouldn't creative get a bonus on building carnival?

Good point, I'll halve the cost of carnivals for creative leaders.

[Spleenfarmer]

I just started playing this mod and really enjoy it. However...

My cottages grow, but my income does not increase! I checked my finances and everything was zeroed out, even though my cottages had grown to village size.

Am I missing something obvious?

Yours in Organic Agriculture,
Spleenfarmer

P.S. - playing the financial, industrious goblins!


EDIT: Nevermind. I did miss something obvious (100% science!)

[TheJopa]

My favorite units are Berserks, with their enraged promotion (+40% attack, -40% defence, +1 movement) and City Raider 1,2,3 and possibly cover they are unbeatable. At least when escorted by shield wall, few archmages and few demon summoners. I also like spellcasters, phalanxs (Spartatoi) because of high strenght and city attack bonus and immortals (They cant die! What else do you need! )
I dont use t4 archers much (Except flurry, because of blitz) Arquebusiers, Heavy Crosbowmans and Marksmans.. I don't build them too often