RBD8 SG - The Vikings

[Sirian]

This game will involve a custom-made map and a custom civ.

Civilization: Vikings
Traits: Militaristic, Religious
Starting Techs: Alphabet, Pottery, Writing
Unique Unit: War Galley
Color: Blue
Capital: Trondheim (city list taken right out of Civ2).

Map: Large, hand drawn (by Sirian)
Opponents: 11
Landform: Archipelago
Climate: Cold, Dry
Barbarians: Restless
Victory Conditions: Space Race or Conquest, all else disabled.
Difficulty Level: up to the players, either Monarch or Emperor.

Turn length: 10 turns. (First player plays 30, second plays 20, then 10 apiece for everybody from there on).

Obviously, since I've drawn the map and tailored the scenerio, I will not be participating as a player in this game. There will be five to seven roster spots, and the game will not begin until there are enough players and the group has agreed on the difficulty level. I will upload a save file from 4000BC and it will go from there.

The War Galley is a beefed up galley, coming available at Mapmaking and capable of starting the Viking Golden Age. It has attack value of 2, standard defense of 1, can carry up to three units, costs and moves the same as a standard galley, and is advanced enough to conduct bombardment missions: the bombardment attacks are quite weak and often produce no results, but just having the option at all, and with the attack bonus, this unit will command the seas in the ancient era and remain useful through the middle ages. So the game is tailored to feature this unit, and will emphasize naval action in general.


Ozymandous and Jester are RBD crew who missed out on all the early games, so they have reserved spots in this game if they want them, and I'd like Charis to give it a shot if he's willing, since it would seem odd to have BOTH of us absent from the roster.

Participation open to anybody interested. If the scenerio sounds appealing, you've been following other RBD games, you think you can handle the challenge, and you can be ready to play within two weeks, possibly less, sign up.


If anybody has questions about the civ, map, or scenerio, I won't give out any spoilers but feel free to ask whatever's on your mind.

I plan to spectate quietly and probably also post some extra screenshots from the save files.


- Sirian

[Thiazi]

I am definately interested in this game and my only preference on difficulty is that it is regent or above. Also, my user name should probably hint at my interest in this game

[Justus II]

I would love to play a Viking game. I haven't played in an SG yet, but I hae been reading several of the threads, and was looking for a good one to come along, and this looks like it! The Vikings were always one of my favorite civs in CivII. Are there any other changes to the rules, or is this a normal game?

[Carbon_Copy]

My self-imposed moratorium on new SGs (until the ones I'm in are finished) is still in effect. Good luck guys, I'll probably fetch the 4000 save and play it solo, and avoid this thread until I've either given up or beaten it. Given that it has the Sirian Stamp of Approval, what I can't do is just ignore it .

[Grey Fox]

A Viking game! Hooray!

Sign up the Viking Fox the Grey!

[Iester]

I'm in.

Monarch difficulty is my usual, but I wouldn't object to Emperor, is everyone wants to.

Jester

[Charis]

<--- Need I say anything more??

Charis


PS Ok, can't escape with words that few... This sounds really interesting, and I can't not jump at this, looks like a good idea and good job, Sirian. Mil and religious? Great combo for what they'll be having to do, with quick rax, harbors, temples... Three starting techs? Potent. Diff level? 70/30 leaning toward emperor, but looking at the requests by others, Monarch is likely best (although I'm guessing victory will not be overly difficult on that diff) Opponents? All random? Some new tribes? Will we get to face the English Man O' War?

PPS Given requests in other threads, I can see about two more rbd SG games popping up within the next two weeks. Especially if we get several 'influx' players requesting to join in For me the player's skill level is not as important as their committment/reliability, so any lurkers out there should not let inexperience stop them. That said, if response here is more than slots, don't worry, another game will surely start soon.

[Charis]

Not a true poll, but just wanted to get feedback from rbd folks and/or others who have shown recent interest, on what games to be targetting as next (rbd9, 10) Several good ideas have surfaced for possible 'next games', so I wanted so summarize a few that I could find from our game threads, and add a few more.

If you could, please respond with: x, y z sound good (or 'nn won't work because...')

1. Globocop. Simple premise - make sure no civ ever gets wiped out.
Chinese (patch 1.17 should help early/good/fast Riders, due to upgrading)
Large map, 12 civs. (There is an initial element of luck in that two civs
might start out in civil war against each other before you even meet them.
But I think it will take a LOT of skill not to just conquer, but to work
the AI's so much that none get eaten up)

2. Army game. (Jaffa showed interest here, and I like) Along the splendid
lines of the Infantry and Artillery games, only the "Army" unit may be
used for offensive attacks to take a city. Mil civ, focus on getting an
early GL, Epic, Mil Tradition, etc. With new 1.17 army-can-blitz rule,
should rock.

2B. Air Force game. Babs or Americans. Main 'offensive' units are the archer
(bowmen), longbow, all artillery units, missiles, nukes, all planes and
paratroopers. Pretty much all expansion would be ancient and middle ages,
since longbowmen is last unit until paratrooper that can take a city.
Wars are wars of attrition, pounding the heck out of enemies without
capturing their cities per se. (Recapture allowed) Carriers would be key.

3. Ignoranti, Clueless Newbies, Dark Ages, however you call it. Zero percent
science, must win by Space Race. How far can you go with a lone scientist,
the Great Library, Trading, Tribue and Espionage? Have several 'sci' civs
in the game. My MOST recent games suggest this won't be nearly as bad as
it sounds at first. (Arathorn showed interest in this one)

3B. Cretans. No culture (the palace is IT). No temples, libraries, culture
wonders. Push the limit and see what kind of impact near zero culture would
have for attitude, flipping, reversion. Crete=Greece? (Sirian suggested
this iirc, as a followup to a Dark Ages proposal) Your city radius will
ONLY be 9 total squares except for your capitol.

4. Five city challenge. Build five cities. Be first to Alpha Centauri.

5. Swiss game - neutral folks, no whipping, razing, bombarding. French, Greek
or Roman as actual civ, with mil opponents.

6. Opium Barons. Trade and luxury focus, no religious happiness wonders
(ie colliseums ok, no temples, cathedrals or related wonders)
Control the masses with luxuries. Overarching goal is to have as many
luxuries for your cities as you possibly can. Perhaps India as 'Thailand'

7. Capitolists. (Yes, that's spelled right) A definite anti-blitz game. The
ONLY cities which may be taken are capitols (and no razing of other ones).
Penetrate, capture, garrison vs flip, and hold. (Actually extend from capitols
to also include any city with a wonder) For added spice, you can't build
wonders, only capture. This has a xCC flavor in that once initial expansion
is done, you won't be getting many new cities (hmmm... capitol hopping would
be an issue) Victory: space race, with ship components only built in
ex-foreign capitols :P

8. Methodists. (No, not the denomination) A peculiar methodical civilization
which thinks some things are just done best in a certain order. Rather than
wait 3500 years to build the FP, why not make it right away? Well, you need
a certain minimum number before you can build it, but basically the last
city that causes this message to fire is the one you want for your Forbidden
Palace, and you start it right away. Max civ size is the 'optimal' size,
which is double the size where you can build the FP. (8 city/16 on std map)

Note, some of these 'combine' fairly well, like 5CC with Swiss for a 'leave me
alone!' attitude, or a 5CC+original-foe-capitols game.

Charis

-- We now return this thread to its regularly scheduled programming! :P

[Sirian]

Justus: the game will use the default rules from the new patch, with the exception of the Viking civ itself, the draft penalty (we'll go with the 20 turns of the last patch for that), and the moving resources. Last I checked neither oil nor coal had legs, so what is it doing walking to the other side of the planet? The resources will stay where I put them. Whether that will be a good thing for the team or not, remains to be seen.

Thiazi, Justus, Grey Fox, Jester, Charis, Ozy (probable). That leaves at most one more slot. Wow, I didn't expect it to fill up this quickly! I better hurry and finish the map!

:fish: :arrow:


- Sirian

[CONRAD]

I'm not playing, but I have been reading past SGs with you guys. Just by reading I have learned A LOT more about the game. Good luck! I just may want to join you on the next one

[shdwlord]

I would like to give it a shot

[Zed-F]

Charis,

I'm up for anything, but as I'm sure you recall I prefer games where the map is relatively small, as I tend to prefer short turns...

Of course I've already expressed interest in 5CC and Swiss but others are fine too. I'm with CC in waiting until some of our current ones are done before jumping in more, however.

I don't think the RBD crew has ever played on a Tiny map. Wonder what would make for a good game on that? Maybe Ignoranti -- it would make it much harder if the AI civs could research stuff really fast and there were fewer civs to trade with and extort cash for tech from.

[Ozymandous]

Ohh, I finally get a shot to join one of these games.

Umm, er, haven't played much beyond Regent level and judging from how I attempted to play the "Isolationists" game vs. Sirian and Charis I still have a lot to learn, but I am willing to try hard.

Count me in (preferrably after someone who has a better clue or two? lol).

Ok, also a few comments to the "poll" posted by Charis. For anyone interested I am only adding the comments I made from notes about the individual suggestions. Some of these comments may sound strange without reviewing the initial suggestion, but I think this will be long enough without quoting each idea again, so here goes.

1. Interesting idea, seems like the "human wall" defense theory for other civ's and constant ROP would be vital to making this work.

2. Sweet, sounds good to me.

2b. Hmm, I don't recall when air power alone ever won a war, but I guess that's what the paratroopers are for.. Possible tweaking of the drop range might be needed for this game, and I assume that modern combat would be a sure thing if only to race to get to the stealth aircraft needed to bypass the SAM improvement.

3. Interesting. This game would good for those (like me) who always try to get and hold a science lead. Might strengthen skills of how to "do without those favorite units before everyone else gets them" aspects of the game. What about wonders who have the "Scientific" and another trait "flag" on them? Would any wonder that was flagged as Scientific be a no-no even if it was also militaristic, commercial or religious?

3b. 9 Squares? Ouch. Can people in the city still work outside this border? If not then this would be an ICS style players dream scenario. The group playing this game would have to decide how they wanted to handle the corruption issues raised by having too many cities, assuming cities are placed 3 tiles apart. Also curious about the wonder deal with this version. Since all wonders produce culture would this be a wonder-less game?

4. Sounds like a slightly larger OOC game. Maybe a modification that the civ can never fight outside it's borders and the game might be interesting. Not to say they can't roam around and explore, but not attack outside the borders (explorers and undefended transports would be used for this I assume, might make the explorer unit actually worth something!.

5. Add a rule against "offensive" attacks and stipulate that the players civ must give the AI breaks for everything in trade and could be challenging.

"What, you want to end the war and have peace and give me stuff? Nah, no thanks on the goodies, I will end the war however."

Disable all victory conditions except diplomatic and then NOT build the UN and this game would be killer. Not sure how iffy the game would be trying to get a Diplomatic victory without the UN would be tho'.

6. Hmm, drug dealers eh? Just make sure to pick a "commercial" civ as the broker for the trade bonus (and to simulate the distribution network).

7. As mentioned in the initial suggestion what happens when the capitol moves? Maybe a stipulation that you can never capture more than the capitol and any wonder cities the Civ has in any given war and the players MUST honor the 20 turn peace rule before attacking again. Another rule that the no other civ can be attacked offensively (even if they start it) until all other capitols have been taken would make this a conquest/domination players dream.

8. Sounds sort of "standard". Any other rules/limits to impose?

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Wow. This game filled up already? Put me on the reserve list if a spot opens up -- I'd like to try a game with a strong naval focus.

I was just thinking it might be good to start off one or two new games now, playing at lower priority through the quicker early years while the current batch are finishing off.

Would there sufficient interest if I were to start off a 5CC game (#4) this weekend? Emperor diff, and I'd be disabling culture and diplo victories, which seem to be the normal win conditions for OOC games. And I'm not going to keep restarting until I find a river

Of the others listed, I'd be most interested in #2 (obviously), 2B, 3B, 6 or 7.

--
Jaffa

[Zed-F]

Well, if you start the 5CC, I will join, since that's one I wanted to participate in... again I will only be able to play on weekends, but since you're already stipulating that it would have lower priority, that shouldn't pose a problem. However, I'd still prefer to wait until one of the other games wraps up.

[Charis]

Comments to several posts here...

Jaffa, I'm up for a 5CC asap, and an army one soon perhaps. Emperor sounds great. What were you thinking for civ? (Romans and Egyptians come to mind or is Swiss intent, French) Anything not expansionist would work ok. The nice thing about 5CC type games, the turns are *much* shorter than regular games. Micromanagement is crucial, BUT takes far far less time with only five cities. Placement is also crucial.

Ozy: Methodists sound standard? Have you ever built the FP in your eight city and started it the minute it was founded??? Picked it to be the 'right' distance away? Beeline settler, settler, settler to get your eight cities asap? Cap the civ at 16 cities to minimize corruption? I've never done anything like this but we keep wondering what an 'optimal # cities' game would look like (it was a big topic of discussion in rbd5 game) I have some thoughts for other restrictions that would hold after the expansion phase, but need to chew on those a little more. The key point of this game is in fact, "How well do you do running at optimal #cities for map size?"

For the Army game, Roman Legionaires, Russian Czars with Communist focus, or Zulu Impirialists come to mind. For globocop I'm thinking China. Ignoranti Zulu. Iroquiois (Spanish?) Methodists.

Charis

[madhatter160]

I'd be interested in playing either ignoranti, Swiss, or trade barons.

I've been lurking around SGs for a while and would LOVE to try my hand at one.

[Sirian]

As far as variants go, in ideas for future RBD games, there are two I have been working on that I haven't talked about as yet:

:yinyang: Environmentalists: Our civ refuses to make ANY use of fossil fuels. No coal or oil shall ever be connected to our trade network. (Pillage the squares when they turn up at the applicable times. If one turns up under a city, someone would be designated to go into the editor and move it to another square nearby, which could be pillaged.) Lack of coal/oil takes the following things off the table: Railroads, Coal Plants, all modern ships starting with Ironclads (AEGIS Cruisers available, heh, if the game lasted that long), all planes, all motorized units, and any trade involving these resources. Our civ would also be forbidden to build nuclear plants or to use nuclear weapons. All victory conditions on the table except for diplomatic. Large Pangaea map. We would probably play this one as the Egyptians, or perhaps a custom civ.


Communicators: Our civ places the highest priority on communication technology. We are required to beeline our own research at the fastest possible rate straight to the communication technologies in each era: Philosophy (in the ancient era), Printing Press THEN Free Artistry (in middle ages), Radio (industrial age), then Sattelites (modern age). ALL victory conditions on the table, but WE must win through diplomacy.

We are allowed to trade techs with other civs, but may not make any side trips in our own research until our Priority techs in each era have been researched. We must buy Communications with other races at the earliest opportunity (as soon as we can afford it) and must also sell Communications at the earliest opportunity. We are also obligated to trade maps with each known civ at least once on each player's turn. Having to win through diplomacy, yet not being able to research Fission until Sattelites have been learned, would really put the pressure on in the modern era. We would play this one as the Russians. Continents map, standard size.


- Sirian

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Originally posted by Charis
Jaffa, I'm up for a 5CC asap, and an army one soon perhaps. Emperor sounds great. What were you thinking for civ? (Romans and Egyptians come to mind or is Swiss intent, French) Anything not expansionist would work ok. The nice thing about 5CC type games, the turns are *much* shorter than regular games. Micromanagement is crucial, BUT takes far far less time with only five cities. Placement is also crucial.

Actually, why not expansionist? The free scout would be really useful for quickly finding our five optimum city locations.

Hmmm. Going for a space race win, so scientific would be good. Expansionist+Scientific is the Russians?

(One day, this thread might actually contain some Viking stuff )

EDIT: and for the army game I was thinking the Romans, who are militaristic (which is pretty much essential for a good chance of getting an early GL), and have the right vibe

--
Jaffa

[Arathorn]

Guys,

I would *LOVE* to have time to participate in a 5CC or a no-culture or (another) Ignoranti game. The problem is my schedule. I rarely play more than an hour or two every couple days or so. (I tell you, having a job, a wife, a toddler, one on the way, and church gets in the way of a fella getting to do what's really important in life!) [I post/read at work, as compiles of 50000+ lines of code takes a while.]

I certainly can't be counted on to keep up with any regularly-scheduled game. If the rules were more flexible (six/seven players, two others have to play between consecutive plays by one person, etc.), I might be able to squeeze it in. But such games seem to play quite a bit more slowly than you do.

I don't have the history with you guys to really do a "call it and jump in", like ? -- names escape me, Zed? ?? does.

I'll keep my eye out for more openings, though. And I'm glad I'm not completely anonymous....

Arathorn