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Old Aug 27, 2006, 05:27 PM   #81
Leif
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I also have had the same old problem with a large amount of gold never actually getting into my treasurey, it's slightly annoying.

I played around with the mod a bit, I added a large quantity of great people so that I could test stuff out, and I really enjoy your approach to things.

However I noticed that you hadn't implemented humanism (atheism) yet, so I believe I know what would work, a new tech that would pop up just after imperialism about the good progress in philosophy, about socialism or compassion (or something like it), call it 'progressivism' or something, but there needs to be a positive philosophy tech for humanism and collectivism.
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An' when our folks eat the stuff they raise an' live in the houses they build-why, I'll be there.
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Old Aug 27, 2006, 08:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morkul
This is a fun mod but there is some balance issues and bugs.

Gymnasium grafic are missing and the whole city screen interface more or less removed due to this. Personaly i have XML so i dont even thinking about trying to fix this problem. Hopefully Eusebius will come with a new version soon
Just released v0.21 which is much more stable. Everyone should download. Should work fine with saved games.

Eusebius
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Old Aug 27, 2006, 08:44 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leif
I also have had the same old problem with a large amount of gold never actually getting into my treasurey, it's slightly annoying.

I played around with the mod a bit, I added a large quantity of great people so that I could test stuff out, and I really enjoy your approach to things.

However I noticed that you hadn't implemented humanism (atheism) yet, so I believe I know what would work, a new tech that would pop up just after imperialism about the good progress in philosophy, about socialism or compassion (or something like it), call it 'progressivism' or something, but there needs to be a positive philosophy tech for humanism and collectivism.
Implemented humanism-atheism through 'Secularism'. Probably wouldn't have been founded properly with v0.20, but I think we have fixed that with v0.21.

E.
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Old Aug 27, 2006, 08:57 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leif
However I noticed that you hadn't implemented humanism (atheism) yet, so I believe I know what would work, a new tech that would pop up just after imperialism about the good progress in philosophy, about socialism or compassion (or something like it), call it 'progressivism' or something, but there needs to be a positive philosophy tech for humanism and collectivism.
I really loved this mod, the creator(s) should be feel good about what they did.

/w the quote, humanism is not atheism, despite what is popularly known. Humanism in the US was a manifesto during the 30's (and before) signed and promulgated by people like Asimov and Ethan Dunn, in a very tiny nutshell it asserts the power of humanity can (and should) serve the role traditionally held by religions, basically a spiritual libertarianism before such things got popularized. It is our Human Self which makes us more than animals, a thing religion has tried to teach to people for several thousand years...the idea of God enters into it all as much or as little as the indvidual chooses.

and with progressivism, that is more a 'civic' ideal, it is liberalism with some 'nads, which basically states all those involved in creating the weath should have a fair share in its prosperity...so no kids in mines, no 18 hour work days for pennies. The ideal is a punch line in the last 40 years because big business wants workers to blame (and rely) on the government and has used every means it has to make sure the word progresive sounds like something bad. There are a lot of blue collar workers who blame oscha for thier daily tasks being made more teadious because of rules but they all have all 10 fingers and don't cough out coal-dust anymore...

sorry for the soapbox and in no way trying to start a fuss, just in a thread where the average IQ seems to be in the triple digits defining terms seemed to be important so we can actually hear what the other people are saying, rather than blasting talk-radio diatribes at each other.
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Old Aug 27, 2006, 09:03 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppanut
2. I would suggest you let's buddhism can develop further into three sect, Thravada(represent as ordinary buddhism), Mahayana Buddhism and Tantric Buddhism (Vajrayana of tibet is one part of it.). With religion tree like this.

Buddhism-->Mahayana Buddhism-->Tantric Buddhism

all three buddhism can use each other the buildings and most of its wonders but different in game bonus (which should not much to balance the wonders effect below and should get production plenalty if possible) and have seperate believer since seperate ways of doctrine so it should cause a bit disadvantage for have different sect in the same civilization .
Thank you so much for the great info and ideas! You give a lot of helpful detail about subjects I don't know well. I am definitely going to consider this for future releases.

We have a dual role as modders--to add detail (and fun), but to work within the constraints of CIV IV. The problem with making three kinds of Buddhism (or two kinds of Confucianism) is that the diplomacy engine will treat them as entirely different religions. Therefore, we shouldn't do this unless the religions have a history of conflict (like Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians). Is that the case here?

BTW, The original "Christianity" is essentially Orthodox, with both Catholics and Protestants as break-aways.

Eusebius
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Old Aug 27, 2006, 11:53 PM   #86
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I just downloaded the warlords version and played a game. Great mod, but I couldn't help but notice that upon building the Luther Bible, not only do you found Protestantism, you also recieve free Mahabodhis in every city. I have a feeling that this may not be the intended effect. Otherwise I haven't seen any other major bugs.
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 12:30 AM   #87
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While the original signing manifesto was quite religious with Christian and other religious overtones, the modern (2003 version, found here http://www.americanhumanist.org/3/Hu...spirations.php) does not mention god once, in fact it rejects suspicion and myth. Over the years since the 1930s' it has become more and more secular, thus allowing humanism to be humanism, as opposed to a sect of Christianity.

What I was attempting to say with the progressivism side-note was that all of the political philosophy techs after liberalism are negative, Totalitarianism and Imperialism, while both very real forces in their times (and today), there were no positive techs to represent the modern thinkers who believed that humanity had great potential to create better and grander things without a boss exploiting them or a priest telling them what is good or bad. This may be interpreted as Progressivism, it may be interpreted as Socialism, Communism or Anarchism, but one way or another, there is no modern positive philosophy presented. While yes, Progressives may not agree with Socialists, and Communists and Anarchists may not see eye-to-eye on all issues, that is a given. However the main point I am attempting to make is that they all have one gigantic thing in common, they all believe that 'we (as the human race) can do better'.

Another critique I have of the Humanist religion as represented in the game is that the 'priest' is called the Bolshevik, and while Communist countries are typically Atheist or Secular, not all Humanists and Atheists are Communists (some in fact use Atheism as a reason to further exploit their fellow human), so I believe a better name is somewhere, but for now it will work.
-last part edited out-
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An' when our folks eat the stuff they raise an' live in the houses they build-why, I'll be there.
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 02:35 AM   #88
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Second turn of 0.21 games causes an exception to come up:

File "CvGameInterface", Line 178, Do_Diplo

File "TPGameUtils", Line 186, Do_Diplo

File ewr, Line 772, GetWorldview

AttributeError: 'Nonetype' object has no attribute 'getCivics'

It seems to happen regardless of civilization chosen, I'd email you the savegame for one of them but I don't know your email and CFC's native emailer doesn't support attachments, I think.

Edit: I didn't see a response to this, so maybe I've done something flagrantly wrong in the installation process. In the event that that isn't the case, I'll go ahead and put another exception I've gotten in this post.

File CvEventInterface, Line 21, OnEvent

File CvCustomEventManager, Line 117, HandleEvent
and again on Line 128 in _handledefaultevent

File TPEventManager, Line 299, onReligionFounded

AttributeError: 'Module' object has no attribute 'ewrAddMessage'"

Edit2: May have missed other things, but: Zoroastrianism Icon (at least for holy city) appears offset to the right (compared to TAM, anyhow) and I'm not seeing any unhappy/unhealthy faces on overland map; this is the sort of thing I'd expect to see already noted so I'm assuming I missed something in a readme and am just mentioning what is already known (or is a problem common to some other aspect of the mod). The "Animism" civic is still named Paganism, as well, even though the readme with the download definitely says v .21...

Edit3: And an issue with the Civil Service entry in the Civilopedia, I'm guessing related to the Papacy.

Last edited by GRM7584; Sep 01, 2006 at 07:15 PM.
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 02:40 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Just released v0.21 which is much more stable. Everyone should download. Should work fine with saved games.

Eusebius
Gymnasium grafic are still bugged.

As i wrote earlier:
In CIV4ArtDefines_Building.xml the decleration of Hellenistic monastary are typoed. Change ART_DEF_BUILDING_HELLENIC_MONASTERY to ART_DEF_BUILDING_HELLENISTIC_MONASTERY and the grafic on the gymnasium should work.
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 03:14 AM   #90
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Every time you i use the keyboar i get an popup with an error message.

To fix this problem simply add "import CvDebugTools" at the beggining av TPEventManager.py.
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 11:52 AM   #91
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Lightbulb Eusebius does civics

I've been thinking about civics for quite a while and finally sat down and defined what I think would work well. I'm feeling inclined to implement it in this mod, although one could argue I ought to do the civics seperately. Please take a look and tell me what you think. Click here to see the chart: EusebiusDoesCivics.pdf

Thanks,
Eusebius

PS. Thanks for the bug reports; I'll try to get to work on them tonight.
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Old Aug 29, 2006, 07:56 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenceman
I just downloaded the warlords version and played a game. Great mod, but I couldn't help but notice that upon building the Luther Bible, not only do you found Protestantism, you also recieve free Mahabodhis in every city. I have a feeling that this may not be the intended effect. Otherwise I haven't seen any other major bugs.
I get the same thing and I have to admit to being currently stumped by this one. Civ4BuildingInfos.xml clearly has this line under PROTESTANT_FOUNDING...
<FreeBuilding>BUILDING_PROTESTANT_TEMPLE</FreeBuilding>
Yet, we wind up with BUILDING_BUDDHIST_SHRINE instead, even in civopedia. Anyone got any suggestions?

Eusebius
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Old Sep 01, 2006, 03:56 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
I get the same thing and I have to admit to being currently stumped by this one. Civ4BuildingInfos.xml clearly has this line under PROTESTANT_FOUNDING...
<FreeBuilding>BUILDING_PROTESTANT_TEMPLE</FreeBuilding>
Yet, we wind up with BUILDING_BUDDHIST_SHRINE instead, even in civopedia. Anyone got any suggestions?

Eusebius
Did you manage to find a workaround for the issue?
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Old Sep 01, 2006, 08:53 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by ocedius
Did you manage to find a workaround for the issue?
No, still stumped on this one; but haven't had much time to work on it either. I expect to post a .22 version soon that fixes all the other reported bugs.

E.
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Old Sep 01, 2006, 09:32 PM   #95
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After playing for a while (everything still seems to function despite the exceptions I was getting), I have a bit of feedback which might be redundant.

1) There is a technological deadzone after Mysticism, since it is a prerequisite only to much more expensive techs. If I was going to recommend a way to fix it, I would say add a tech called "Astrology" or something similar in between Mysticism and Divine Appeasement, and either A)Make a new building (say, a Stele or an Altar) allowing a priest (prereq'd by Astrology), B)Move Pagan Temple or Monument to Astrology or C)Make Oracle a regular building (prereq'd by Astrology) with the same effects as the theoretical new building. Then return Writing to the Husbandry or Wheel setup (with Astrology as a new requirement). Of course, it might be easier to add something in FRONT of Mysticism, since you have less editing to do and it would probably make just as much sense to place something like "Ritual" or "Ceremonial Burial" up there; maybe as a prereq to a civic for the new system you'd want, speaking of which:

2) If you're going to make a new Civics Column, why not make it specifically geared towards fleshing out a "lesser" belief system (apart from the broad Hellenism/Eastern/MesoAmerican system) instead of something which can easily be conceived of as being within the boundaries of "civil rights"? Its a religious/belief mod, after all. This way, you could do something along the lines of:
::Religion::
Same as your proposal, but instead of Pacifism:
-Secular State (or Antitheism, but Secular State seems like a more "realistic" idea)
::Philosophy:: or ::Society:: or ::Whatever::
-Survival
-Familial (Strong Family Values and Loyalties)
-Legalism (Not specifically the Chinese system, but a society in which obedience to Law and "Established Ethics" is top priority)
-Pacifism (moved from Religion)
-Jingoism (or Propaganda, or State Ideology, or some other fancy name)

3) I got sidetracked, and forgot the other feedback I had. I'm sure there was some, somewhere. Ah well.
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Old Sep 02, 2006, 04:36 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Thank you so much for the great info and ideas! You give a lot of helpful detail about subjects I don't know well. I am definitely going to consider this for future releases.

We have a dual role as modders--to add detail (and fun), but to work within the constraints of CIV IV. The problem with making three kinds of Buddhism (or two kinds of Confucianism) is that the diplomacy engine will treat them as entirely different religions. Therefore, we shouldn't do this unless the religions have a history of conflict (like Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians). Is that the case here?

BTW, The original "Christianity" is essentially Orthodox, with both Catholics and Protestants as break-aways.

Eusebius
May I suggest a bit more?

I think that it could possiblely split sunni and shia because

1) Except Kabah rock and Koran, Their dogma and political idea of this two are in vandetta against each others and treat each other as different religion.(Sunni condamn shia pagan while shia condamn sunni were forsaken the true leader.)
2) In history, Both sunni and shia see each other as worst enemy, worse than the crusader of the west. Such as during ottoman empire, the only religion that they never tolelant with is Shia.
3) Their history of intorelant still continue without any solution (unlike between Catholic and Protestant that have Treaty of Westphalia that force them accept each other existance.)
4) Even they both look similar by cultural tie but main reason of their sympathy of each other nowadays because they both feel that now they have the same enemy who never discriminate that what is sunni and what is
shia.

Solution to split it in CIV4 is when Shrine of Imam Raza, it will autometicly build Shrine of Shia the same city of Kabah rock(shia shrine act as expansion of Islam shrine)(Kabah Rock should be the name of Shrine of Islam not Dome of the Rock which should be seperated wonders)

I think that other religion should have their special wonders especially religions those have stat inferior than another and prevent any player with advance in technology to monopolizing the wonder

some wonder should move from general wonders to be religious specific wonders

list of wonders that could suggest to move or add to religious wonders

Forbidden palace (confucianism)
Spiral Mineret (Islam)
J.C. Bach Cathedral (modern catholic)
Protestant's Work Ethic (Protestant) (project)
Teotihuacan (mesoamerican)
Chichen Iza (mesoamerican)
Machu Picchu (mesoamerican)
Toledo translation school (catholic)
Gutenberg's Bible (catholic) (project that hurt you short term but help you in long run)
Society of Jesus(Order of Jesuit) (catholic) (randomly convert random amount of peoples in any city else where in the world every turn until it expired)
Sakti Cult (hinduism) (popular cult of goddress worship that believe the goddress consort is more powerful than god that effect to catch attention of believer especially women) (in order to access all market, hinduism provide a varity of product that catch different groups in society which really different to all others modern religion.)
Dercarte's Theology school (modern catholic) (reduce scientific plenalty for modern catholism) (Dercarte is the materialism philosopher who teach in theology school that looking for place of the ulitmate in sciences for catholism theology. His philosophy influence most of later thinkers and scientists in the west.)
Library of Bagdad (Islam)
Statue of Zeus (hellenism)
Olympic game (hellenism) (project)
Academy & Lyceum (hellenism)
etc.

I heard that Fall from Heaven mod can catagorized several religions in mod into groups of many good and many evil that effect diplomacy(I still doesn't play it) perhap you should explore their file for detail

Last edited by Suppanut; Sep 02, 2006 at 04:40 AM.
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Old Sep 02, 2006, 09:08 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Thank you so much for the great info and ideas! You give a lot of helpful detail about subjects I don't know well. I am definitely going to consider this for future releases.

We have a dual role as modders--to add detail (and fun), but to work within the constraints of CIV IV. The problem with making three kinds of Buddhism (or two kinds of Confucianism) is that the diplomacy engine will treat them as entirely different religions. Therefore, we shouldn't do this unless the religions have a history of conflict (like Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians). Is that the case here?

BTW, The original "Christianity" is essentially Orthodox, with both Catholics and Protestants as break-aways.

Eusebius
Oh! I'm sorry. I'm really forgot your question on conflict of buddhist sect, So now I will explain this to you.

This catagory devide into three area, india subcontinent, fareast and southeast asia.

In india, Since buddhism is born as intellectual based (buddha can only save the one who want and potentially able to save themselves) that anti social system (cevic) that bhramin set and force society. One problem occur, Buddha's message is too complicated for most people to understand, so most people imagine and worship buddha as guru and mystic which situation become worst as buddha image tradition begin in india that made most people can't differentiate hindu gods from buddha image. So conflict between sect are in an elite and intellectual groups with mass and king as tool to power and material needs. So all sect and religions india play game of power over king and mass. Thravada out of this game first because lack of mass based and not support devine right follow by Mahayana as its ask too much duty for ruler to do on social welfare and lastly tantric because muslim invasion and people no longer able to seperate buddha with gods any more. Left only hinduism and islam on powerplay game of india. So Buddhism conflict here is based on intellectual and elite over support of state.

In fareast, At first, main conflict here are conflict between buddhism (mostly mahayana subsects with some tantric subsects) and local religion like confucian bereaucrats taoist nationalism and,in case of japan, conservative shintoism with some conflict between sect and subsect. But buddhism gradully assimilate and adapt with local and become part of their culture. Even china exported buddhism but they rarely conflict with other by buddhism sects because rarely have any attention on any places outside sphere of influence(Korea, Vietnam, Japan). Until 800 years ago buddhism's conflict become ethnics conflict between mongol and manchu which are conquror and ruler of Yuan and Qing dynasty of china which faith in vajrayana of tibet and chinese folk which believe in confucianism, taoism and mahayana buddhism all together that made commoner cannot distingish buddhism from each other(if you once read "Journey to West" you will understand). Because of nationalism of culture made chinese see this foreign ruler immoral oppressor, so did their religion(in this case vajrayana buddhism) So they have a lot of religious revolts base on religions. So buddhism's conflict here is based on culture, ethnics and nationalism.

In southeast asia, Situation here is similar to india except that hindu was not deep root and islam is no that powerful. It end up by indonesia and malaysia convert to islam and mainland covert to thravada buddhism.Why Thravada here but its failed elsewhere? Before tell about southeast asia we need to tell about ceylon first. Ceylon become center of buddhism afer decline in india especially Thravada. Here state's and religion's interest and security is the same because they both have the same enemy, the Hindu Tamil people from southern india, so thravada here support the state for the people survival by grant king devine right as assume god concept of hinduism and bodhsatta of mahayana provide and have religion serve social function of ritual that india never did without demand a lot of duty mahayana ask for while still hold the same doctrine and dogma. In Southeast asia mainland, ruler of kingdom become bore with duty of social welfare that mahayana ask king to do while people dislike bhramin that act as exploiter who never serve commoner social function but state ritual. Ruler need both devine right and population support so they made attention of Thravada buddhism of ceylon that allow them to access to Hinduism devine right and mahayana buddhism popular support. As they accept Thravada from ceylon, They evolved it more into local idea by made religion serve social, culture and state in conflict with other thraveda*states as they can be only one true Chakravatin(Viture emperor of buddhism). They also cease to depend on india's holy places by made their places and anywhere to assume function of holy place. So buddhism's conflict here are different sects in area of internal politic and he same sect(with different subsects base on ethnic group and state) for international politic.

Last edited by Suppanut; Sep 02, 2006 at 11:15 AM.
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Old Sep 02, 2006, 02:55 PM   #98
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Question INI Files?

Hey, can anyone out there direct me to some detailed information on the Civ IV ini files? I get the basic idea, but I have noticed that the game seems to modify the file on its own sometimes--it has a particularly annoying habit of turning off debug logging from time to time.

I also know that there is a "global" ini file and each mod has its own ini file. What is the relationship between the two? Does one pre-empt the other? Are some fields valid in one and not the other? Do mods that use the ini file reader require only grab fields in the mod ini, or in either?

Thanks in advance,
Eusebius
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Old Sep 03, 2006, 10:46 AM   #99
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
I get the same thing and I have to admit to being currently stumped by this one. Civ4BuildingInfos.xml clearly has this line under PROTESTANT_FOUNDING...
<FreeBuilding>BUILDING_PROTESTANT_TEMPLE</FreeBuilding>
Yet, we wind up with BUILDING_BUDDHIST_SHRINE instead, even in civopedia. Anyone got any suggestions?
Figured it out. Needed to be BUILDINGCLASS_PROTESTANT_TEMPLE (the class, rather than the building).

E.
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Old Sep 05, 2006, 11:34 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-HAN
why did u place islam under Judaism Christianity Modern Catholicism..?Islam is independent from other religions...
Actually, Islam is what is considered to be an "Abrahamic faith", meaning that it traces itself back to Abraham, who's life is narrated in the old testament and is named as a prophet in the Qur'an. Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i are all Abrahamic faiths. Jesus is also mentioned in the Qur'an as a prophet. So, Islam really isn't independent from all other faiths. That said, at the time of Islam's founding, Arabia was primarily polytheistic, so it doesn't make too much sense to require Judaism or Christianity.

Also, a suggestion: Make the founding of religions a function of great prophets. You can apply all the rules you want to religion founding; i.e. Christianity can only be founded in a city with Judaism by a civ with theology, Sikhism can only be founded in a city with Islam and Hinduism, Confucianism can only be founded by a civ with code of laws. This would make way more sense from a historical accuracy point of view, and best of all you don't have to modify the tech tree or buildings. The only thing that worries me is that there might be too few great prophets generated over the course of a game. I'll suggest this to some other modders and see what kind of reaction I get. I might even learn me some python.

BTW: MY FIRST POST
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