Some random ideas, not AI specific for a change

[Seven05]

So we have all of these civs and with few exceptions they play very much alike. One thing I think would help would be something other than military heroes for some civs. For example, everyone wants Phoenicia & Carthage to be trading empire so why not give them a special caravan unit instead of a hero, essentially a great merchant with maybe 1/3rd (or less) of the profit from trade missions and the ability to create a unique building like a bazaar not to unlike the great scientists' academy. Egypt could receive some sort of an engineer with the ability to rush production slightly or maybe build improvements much quicker than normal workers for another example. Lots of possibilities and I think some variety in this special unit could really add some spice to the game and make playing different civs much more interesting.

The Roman Legionary works very well with the March promotion rather than the Commando promotion and it doesn't feel quite as "broken" when used by a human player compared to the AI. First strike immunity (or first strike capability) also works well since many defenders receive first strikes as does Combat II since it opens up additional promotions for newly created units in cities with Barracks.

Allowing all naval units to enter the ocean and increasing the movement required to enter coastal tiles has a good effect on naval warfare, particularly amphibious landings. Currently you seldom have the chance to use your navy to defend against invasions since the attacker will move past you (from their own cities in many cases) and unload in a single turn. It may also be a good idea to allow all naval vessels to enter rival territory since it seems inappropraite for ancient civilizations to even know I'm sailing in their waters, especially when nowhere near their cities, let alone prevent me from doing it. This also makes everybody more vulnerable to amphibious landings despite open borders being harder to get.

[schlappi]

Originally Posted by Seven05

Allowing all naval units to enter the ocean and increasing the movement required to enter coastal tiles has a good effect on naval warfare, particularly amphibious landings. Currently you seldom have the chance to use your navy to defend against invasions since the attacker will move past you (from their own cities in many cases) and unload in a single turn. It may also be a good idea to allow all naval vessels to enter rival territory since it seems inappropraite for ancient civilizations to even know I'm sailing in their waters, especially when nowhere near their cities, let alone prevent me from doing it. This also makes everybody more vulnerable to amphibious landings despite open borders being harder to get.

Absolutely love the idea(s) in this paragraph, it will allow much more realism and enable more contatcs in the mid-early game.
Together with the first generation of sea vessels being able to enter ocean tiles i'd suggest that every vessel has a chance of being lost in bad weather. Reading articles about the roman wars and especially the punic ones revealed to me that a large amount of ships was lost in storms. The chance should be not too big, maybe 10% for biremes/transport galleys and decrease to 5% for biremes/barges maybe?

[sapon]

Originally Posted by Seven05

Allowing all naval units to enter the ocean and increasing the movement required to enter coastal tiles has a good effect on naval warfare, particularly amphibious landings. Currently you seldom have the chance to use your navy to defend against invasions since the attacker will move past you (from their own cities in many cases) and unload in a single turn. It may also be a good idea to allow all naval vessels to enter rival territory since it seems inappropraite for ancient civilizations to even know I'm sailing in their waters, especially when nowhere near their cities, let alone prevent me from doing it. This also makes everybody more vulnerable to amphibious landings despite open borders being harder to get.

Very good ideas regarding the naval improvements, I concur with your suggestions entirely. I especially enjoy the idea of making all water tiles open to sea traffic. I find myself being isolated to my small area of the Med, when in reality sea travel was very open. Also, is there a way to make pirates?

Regarding Legions, how about changing the upgrade path of the Legion to armored infantry or an equivalent Imperial Legion?

Regards

[Jet]

Originally Posted by sapon

Also, is there a way to make pirates?

Arr, if ye want to roll it yerself, edit iUnownedWaterTilesPerBarbarianUnit in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml. Ye'll be needin' to change it ONCE fer yer own handicap level, arr, and ONCE fer the landlubbin' AIs, who sure as a storm cloud on the black-eyed night of a gullet-crossed new moon... will be at Noble.

[thamis]

I do like the idea of sea tiles being open borders, but the problem I see is too early contact with all civs. But I still think we should try it out. I'll edit it in.

And how does the game know what boats to spawn for the barbs? I think barbs has only land units right?

[thamis]

Oh, and we could re-institute the civ-specific advantages that we had in CIV4, most of them in the shape of a national wonder or national technology.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by thamis

And how does the game know what boats to spawn for the barbs? I think barbs has only land units right?

Arr, the units FORBIDDEN to the scurvy barbs be defined under CIVILIZATION_BARBARIAN in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml. Biremes ain't forbidden, matey, so hoist the jolly roger and flabben down the flamberjams!

[Seven05]

Yeah, what he said, and if you want them to use anything better than a Bireme down the line give them the appropriate free tech.

[Ankenaton]

Yes I would welcome these changes. As it stands now the AI always completes the Great Pyramid before I am halfway through building it.

[Sisonpyh]

Originally Posted by thamis

Oh, and we could re-institute the civ-specific advantages that we had in CIV4, most of them in the shape of a national wonder or national technology.

You mean TAM for Civ3?

I've been hoping for that feature in Civ4 for awhile now. The concept of each civililzation having their own unique wonder or building did a good job of diversfying the game experience.

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I think what's missing is an early sea-going vessel, like the Phoenecian round boats with the deep cargo holds (which, Carthage also used, being an off-shoot of Phoenecia if you will.) Additionally, it may be more a problem of the prevalence of ocean tiles. For example, there should be only a couple of real ocean tiles between Rome and Carthage, none in the Eastern Med, and only a few SE of Macedonian mainland. Finally, the waters between Iberia and North Africa should be mostly ocean, except where the two land masses are closest, near the straight of Gibralter.

I wholeheartedly agree with making all borders over the water in this mod, open to all forms of naval travel. This will also allow for greater use of sea trade via merchant ships.

I don't particularly agree with making Great wonders available only to certain civs. If so, then the wonder builders would choose either Greece or Egypt.

I would, however, support national wonders offering similar benefits to the great wonders. These, you could tailor to the civ in question. For example, you would have the Great wonder, the Sphinx or the Great Pyramids, but allow Egypt to also build a national wonder, specific only to Egypt, called Valley of the Dead or Temple of Amun-Ra, etc...This in addition to unique buildings.

I've been dabbling in the new expansion, Warlords, and liking the implementation of unique buildings. While I think Warlords could have gone much further than it did, it has enlightened me to new concepts, some of which I'd like to see implemented in TAM at some point.

Wish I knew how to play around in Python and xml or the DLL scripting, but for now, I can just offer suggestions.

[baptiste]

Originally Posted by Seven05

For example, everyone wants Phoenicia & Carthage to be trading empire so why not give them a special caravan unit instead of a hero, essentially a great merchant with maybe 1/3rd (or less) of the profit from trade missions

Some ideas that could help :
- special naval trading unit able to travel across foreign water tiles AND able to make trade mission in a coastal city even without open borders (strenght 0 would not be a problem with opened seas as you suggested)
- commerce bonus for trade routes with luxury goods (spices, ivory, gold...). Maybe the "financial" could be replaced for some of them with a "mercantile" or something quite different with +1 commerce bonus for every trade route (this way it helps both science and gold)

[thamis]

Version 1.951 should already allow ALL boats to cross into rival territory...

[baptiste]

Originally Posted by thamis

Version 1.951 should already allow ALL boats to cross into rival territory...

Does it include cities ? Trade boats need access to cities, not only seas.

[thamis]

Originally Posted by baptiste

Does it include cities ? Trade boats need access to cities, not only seas.

Good point... I don't know.

We have to test that.

[Alekhine]

Originally Posted by thamis

Good point... I don't know.

We have to test that.

Unless you have an open borders agreement, trade boats can't enter cities. I also had a fishing boat denied access into Greek territory while my galleys could happily sail through but on the whole I think the changes made to sea movement are a good innovation as it makes the prospect of unexpected sea invasions much more likely. For instance in my latest game as the Romans I was happily expanding my early empire by peacefully building new cities when out of nowhere Boudicca declared war & dropped 2 galley loads of troops right next to my fledgeling city in Corscia. There is also tension when you see a couple of Greek biremes loaded with hoplites & rams hugging your shoreline, wondering where or if they are going to land and waiting for a declaration of war.

[Ankenaton]

Originally Posted by kwarriorpoet

I think what's missing is an early sea-going vessel, like the Phoenecian round boats with the deep cargo holds (which, Carthage also used, being an off-shoot of Phoenecia if you will.) Additionally, it may be more a problem of the prevalence of ocean tiles. For example, there should be only a couple of real ocean tiles between Rome and Carthage, none in the Eastern Med, and only a few SE of Macedonian mainland. Finally, the waters between Iberia and North Africa should be mostly ocean, except where the two land masses are closest, near the straight of Gibralter.

I wholeheartedly agree with making all borders over the water in this mod, open to all forms of naval travel. This will also allow for greater use of sea trade via merchant ships.

I don't particularly agree with making Great wonders available only to certain civs. If so, then the wonder builders would choose either Greece or Egypt.

I would, however, support national wonders offering similar benefits to the great wonders. These, you could tailor to the civ in question. For example, you would have the Great wonder, the Sphinx or the Great Pyramids, but allow Egypt to also build a national wonder, specific only to Egypt, called Valley of the Dead or Temple of Amun-Ra, etc...This in addition to unique buildings.

I've been dabbling in the new expansion, Warlords, and liking the implementation of unique buildings. While I think Warlords could have gone much further than it did, it has enlightened me to new concepts, some of which I'd like to see implemented in TAM at some point.

Wish I knew how to play around in Python and xml or the DLL scripting, but for now, I can just offer suggestions.

Your suggestions concerning Great and National Wonders are good ones in my opinion. It would definitely add to the flavor of the game. That way I will not feel so bad when someone like the Hittites or Lydians (sorry Thamis) build the Great Pyramid in five turns.

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Originally Posted by Alekhine

Unless you have an open borders agreement, trade boats can't enter cities. I also had a fishing boat denied access into Greek territory while my galleys could happily sail through but on the whole I think the changes made to sea movement are a good innovation as it makes the prospect of unexpected sea invasions much more likely. For instance in my latest game as the Romans I was happily expanding my early empire by peacefully building new cities when out of nowhere Boudicca declared war & dropped 2 galley loads of troops right next to my fledgeling city in Corscia. There is also tension when you see a couple of Greek biremes loaded with hoplites & rams hugging your shoreline, wondering where or if they are going to land and waiting for a declaration of war.

OUCH! I really need to get over my attempts to find the best way to play Carthage and just play out a game lol. I am over not being able to grab as many early wonders with the Carthaginians as I could with other civs

I still believe Carthage is very sloooooooow.