Code of Laws, Great tech, or GREATest tech?

[Zechnophobe]

I've only got those two options here on the survey, so just go ahead and pick one .

Code of Laws gives you three possible extremely good boni.


1) Establishment of Confucianism. The obvious one, but an important one. Due to the ebb and flow of the game, this seems to end up being my religion more often than any other (Even if I don't convert ;p).

2) Courthouses. Probably the most important building early on. (That is, before the ability to expand is no longer possible).

3) Caste System: The best labor option for expanding civs. I can't get enough of this civic, which is amusing because I used to think it was 'awful'. First of all, for non creative civs, you can use the first 3 turns of a cities existence to get the first cultural growth by making an artist specialists. Secondly, you can support an expanding empire by making merchant specialists wherever needed (Until the cities start supporting themselves). Thirdly you can specialize your various cities on getting certain types of great people with relative ease. Getting an early Great Scientist in a Cottage spammed city is extremely important, due to the academy it produces. Given that probably 80% of your science at this point is coming from two or 3 cities, that academy is going to do wonders to your total numbers.

I am also of the opinion that grabbing the pyramids on the way here can make for the most consistent of builds. Caste system + Early representation makes specialists so incredibly effective at garnering commerce, it's insane. A City with an academy under representation earns 9 Science per Scientist specialist. 10.5 with a Library. Once again, look at how that compares to your total science production as of around the time you get Code of Laws, and I think you'll be impressed.

Overall, due to the tech giving three economic outlets (Courthouse, religion, caste system) I think I actually rate this on par with Pottery.

[Sisiutil]

CoL is valuable mainly because of the courthouses (especially the cheap ones if you're Organized), and for one other reason: it's on the path to Civil Service.

As for the other bonuses you mention...

It's nice to found a religion, but unless I'm prepared to back up my faith with arms, I'll rarely adopt it after founding it. Too many diplomatic demerits, too big a risk of being attacked because you're a godless heathen. I suppose I could spread it, but I'd rather build military units than missionaries. In many games, even if I found a religion, I tend to adopt that of a neighbour I want to keep happy. Still, it's good to have a religion, and in the absence of any others this one will certainly do.

Caste System just can't compete with Slavery. Even if you go after a specialist economy with farms rather than cottages, you still won't see much from this civic until quite late in the game when your cities reach an appropriate size, and you may miss out on getting several infrastructure buildings completed earlier without the use of the good ol' whip.

Don't get me wrong, CoL is an important early tech, I just don't see as much value in all its bonuses as you do.

[drkodos]

As much as I love me some Courthouses, I gotta go with above poster and say BW is single most important tech.

Even just for its revelation of copper lodes (or lack of) it is significantly game changing as it comes at such an early stage. Add the impact on economy and growth of Slavery civic and chopping, and I think it could even be argued that BW may be a bit too powerful for a single tech (I don't neccessarily agree, but I think the argument has some merit!).

[pigswill]

I'm afraid I go with bronze-working as the most important single tech (copper for axes and spears, slavery and chopping). CoL is certainly one of my favourites; though Civil Service is at least as good (bureaucracy, irrigation and half of maces).

[Beamup]

Originally Posted by drkodos

I think it could even be argued that BW may be a bit too powerful for a single tech (I don't neccessarily agree, but I think the argument has some merit!).

No, it can't be argued that BW is a bit too powerful for a single tech. The only vaugely viable claim is that BW is hugely too powerful for a single tech.

And CoL just isn't that great. It gives you a bad civic, a ho-hum religion that rarely amounts to much, and the very nice Courthouses. Certainly a useful tech, but doesn't even start to crack the ranks of the best or most game-changing.

[Gnarfflinger]

Code of Laws is a great tech, but not greatest.

It's imperative to get it fairly early, but it's not a game breaker.

Bronze working gives you a resource, an early game attacker, and more powerful civic. That makes it better than CoL.

I don't believe there is any "greatest tech" out there. With each civ and game various techs become huge fast.

No copper, no iron, no horses and Gunpowder becomes imperative...

[Mango]

Bronze Working unless you're Rome, in which case I always beeline for Iron Working.

But Bronze Working probably is the most overpowered tech in the game. Before the 1.61 patch it was even more overpowered since you could regularly grab 60 hammers from chopping. Slavery has always been great, especially if you know how to abuse it, and Axemen are the first unit you can build to really wipe out a Civ (unless you're the Incans).

[pixiejmcc]

Originally Posted by Gnarfflinger

No copper, no iron, no horses and Gunpowder becomes imperative...

Wow, if I ever found myself in this situation, I would make damn sure I found some and if I didn't I would put my fist through the monitor long before Gunpowder came around.

[pixiejmcc]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

2) Courthouses. Probably the most important building early on. (That is, before the ability to expand is no longer possible).

Please convince me that this is the most important early building. Because currently (and please bear in mind I tend to play short MP games) I would rate it as one of the worst, if not THE worst.

[50_dollar_bag]

Originally Posted by Mango

Bronze Working unless you're Rome, in which case I always beeline for Iron Working.

Bronze working is required for Iron working so I'd argue it's still the most important tech for Rome.

[automator]

As much as I love me some Courthouses, I gotta go with above poster and say BW is single most important tech.

Ambivalence from me.

I've gone way far into the game with no BW. You can even trade for iron/bronze from another player!

But I can't go beyond five cities without putting up courthouses in the second ring of cities. With just five cities, it's likely that I'd have a science city, a decent (but not stellar) production cities, and a couple mediocre cities.

For me, the bottom line is that I can expand much faster with courthouses than without, and BW/IW can come later. But, this is contingent on either playing with the Aztecs (for the jaguar unit [no metal needed]), having no strong neighbors (a diplomatic neighbor with a shared religion is nice), or havinng horses available (for horse archers).

If I need some attackers, I'll go straight for the metal, then get CoL later.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by pixiejmcc

Please convince me that this is the most important early building. Because currently (and please bear in mind I tend to play short MP games) I would rate it as one of the worst, if not THE worst.

unless someone is saying differently u can probably assume any discussion is about SP sensibilities.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by automator

Ambivalence from me.

I've gone way far into the game with no BW. You can even trade for iron/bronze from another player!

But I can't go beyond five cities without putting up courthouses in the second ring of cities. With just five cities, it's likely that I'd have a science city, a decent (but not stellar) production cities, and a couple mediocre cities.

For me, the bottom line is that I can expand much faster with courthouses than without, and BW/IW can come later. But, this is contingent on either playing with the Aztecs (for the jaguar unit [no metal needed]), having no strong neighbors (a diplomatic neighbor with a shared religion is nice), or havinng horses available (for horse archers).

If I need some attackers, I'll go straight for the metal, then get CoL later.

try upping ur level.

[MrCynical]

While a fairly important tech, CoL is certainly not the most important tech, even in its own era. At the levels I play at you're extremely unlikely to get there first, so Confucianism is a non-issue. Courthouses, while useful, I don't put as much importance on as many people since due to my style of building a few very powerful cities maintenance costs are already low. Caste system is only a necessity if you're running a specalist economy which, given I play all the way up to the industrial and modern ages, is inferior to the cottage economy. Slavery is far more useful, and provides a means to rush early cultural improvements if border expansionn is that essential.

[Antilogic]

Second the great tech...

Just brainstorming some other candidates for great techs that haven't been mentioned: biology, civil service (they mentioned it leads up to it, but civil service is great in its own right), and liberalism (I always go for liberalism).

I don't use the caste system that often--I am a cottage player with a singe great person factory, and that great person factory typically has more than enough buildings for running four or five specialists constantly (I don't have any more than that early on). Plus the Great Library or Temple of Artemis...that's enough for me.

I do love courthouses, especially if your capital is not centered in your empire and you don't want to give up the bureaucracy bonus in your current capital. There was one Pangaea game I played with all of my cities east of my capital due to a nearby coastline, which wreaked havoc on my maintenance costs. Code of Laws was a life-saver.

So, I would rate it is a great tech, but I think there are some other strong contenders for the greatest (among them Civil Service, Biology, Liberalism). And of course Bronze Working is a candidate, but that's already been beat to death here.



EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to congratulate you on the Colbert reference! I was just so ready to write about those other things...

[Pantastic]

I don't really care about it; unless I'm beelining to confucionism (like in an isolated start) then I'll probably just ignore it and trade for it later on. Currency does far more for my early economy than courthouses; you have to build a courthouse in each city (which takes time) while currency gives you a trade routs worth about as much instantly when you get it. Plus it enables trading off minor techs for tons of cash, getting cash in war settlements, and extorting cash, all of which contribute to being able to hold 100% science even with expansion.

[OceansEleven]

I'd say Bronze Working is the best. Courthouses rock, yes, but if you have a religion you don't need them

[Elrohir]

Originally Posted by OceansEleven

I'd say Bronze Working is the best. Courthouses rock, yes, but if you have a religion you don't need them

What level are you playing on? Courthouses are a necessity on any level, and the higher you go, the more you need them. I play on Monarch, and getting Courthouses as soon as possible is a priority, even more than getting a Holy City. You can always snag (IE, conquer) a Holy City from one of your neighbors later if you have to; getting Courthouses is necessary to have a good economy. (Unless you're playing One City Challenge, of course)

[OceansEleven]

Originally Posted by Elrohir

What level are you playing on? Courthouses are a necessity on any level, and the higher you go, the more you need them. I play on Monarch, and getting Courthouses as soon as possible is a priority, even more than getting a Holy City. You can always snag (IE, conquer) a Holy City from one of your neighbors later if you have to; getting Courthouses is necessary to have a good economy. (Unless you're playing One City Challenge, of course)

Usually Prince. I go straight for Hinduism, and usually get it. I get Priesthood, then go straight for BW. Then other techs after that. I usually have 90% + Scientific Level or whatever. Get Oracle and Stonehenge during that part, and get Metal Casting and your set for the beginning part.

I just played on Noble for the first time in a while. I kept doing ok on Prince and wanted to see what I had to do. Constructed lots of cottages early on, had a good tech lead, huge army. Founded 3 religions, ha. One of the best starts I've had.

Prince I know it would be different. I do construct courthosues in every city right away, except maybe the capital. That's if I'm in the negatives... I have more important things to do if I'm not in a bad situation. It doesn't really need it in the beginning. But, get a Great Prophet after you've built the shrine, use it as a specialist and your ok.

They are important. But Bronze Working is better. Get it and know where you have to place your next city. Can chop. Better units, and get ready to wage war.

[drkodos]

Originally Posted by 50_dollar_bag

Bronze working is required for Iron working so I'd argue it's still the most important tech for Rome.

Along those lines, I've oft argued mining is the single most important tech since it leads to BW and IW.

For certain, starting with it as one of my pocket tech improves my winning chances ten fold.