LK18 - China, mod, low corruption.

LKendter · Mar 19, 2002, 08:56 PM

Worker automate is not fair is sucession games - please do not use it.
Also, no long go to orders. Don't fortify ships in the middle of the ocean.
Patch 1.17 required.

playing
LeeKendter (on deck)
Dark Sheer
smegged
Thiazi (playing)

Diplomatic victory is DISABLED.

Civ = China
World = Large, Wet, Warm, 5 Billion, large continents.
Difficulty = Regent
Barbarians = Roaming
# Civs = 12
24 hours to verify you can play your turn, 48 hours to play.
Your choice, up to 20 turns. You can always play less.

Mod warning
I am curious what effect lower corruption has one the game.
I check every building to reduce corruption

Carbon_Copy · Mar 19, 2002, 09:05 PM

Hrm..."variant" typically means something you do to make the game harder. Making every building reduce corruption makes the game decidedly easier. I will agree, it's an interesting idea (and probably closer to how things work in real life than having every city outside of a day's drive from your capitals be utterly unproductive), but believe me you, the variant players tend to get a little touchy about what is or isn't a variant.

LKendter · Mar 19, 2002, 09:13 PM

Hmmm....
Well what would you call it then?

After all, I have seen playing as a new civ called a variant.

Carbon_Copy · Mar 19, 2002, 09:20 PM

I'd call it a mod. That's what it is, basically.

Charis · Mar 19, 2002, 10:01 PM

Keep in mind that distinction of 'making it harder' only came up in another realm (D1/D2), and that in response to a lot of confusion over what a variant was.

His usage is consistent with the definition of the word:
- Having or exhibiting variation; differing.
- Deviating from a standard, usually by only a slight difference.
(American Heritage)

So Carbon we're the ones with the odd definition, taking it to mean 'non-standard with the goal of increasing challenge and providing variety'

On the other hand... it might be a good idea to use 'mod' to denote changes in the actual hard-coded rules (which AI must also obey) and 'variant' in which you self-limit your strategy without actually modifying the bic or save file.

As I look over the mod forums here and at Apolyton, this particular change, with reduces-corruption flag attached to several buildings, seems to top peoples lists for do-it-yourself simple rule changes to "fix things I don't like". What I'm not sure is if it's a simple 'flag' where having more than one such building is pointless, or whether there is some cumulative %reduction so the very act of having more bldgs will wipe out corruption.

In any case... good luck LK!

Charis

LKendter · Mar 19, 2002, 10:14 PM

Well, I played around some before starting.
Added another building to corruptted city.
The wastage dropped some with additional buildings.
You can't seem to get rid of the last 1 / 1 of wastage, but...

Oh well, enough discussion on Mod / variant.
Time to start getting players to sign up.

Dark Sheer · Mar 20, 2002, 12:45 AM

I have only played in Open SG so far and I would like to have a go at this one.

LKendter · Mar 20, 2002, 05:36 AM

Dark Sheer,
you are #2.

I am sure by the time I get home tonight in 10 hours, this puppy will be ready to go.

smegged · Mar 20, 2002, 07:06 AM

I'm a bit short of games at the moment, so I'll give this one a go. I would prefer it if it's on Monarch difficulty, but such is life

.

Thiazi · Mar 20, 2002, 12:32 PM

This should be an interesting game and assuming spots are still open, I'm in.

LKendter · Mar 21, 2002, 04:41 PM

4000 BC - Beijing is formed, by a river

3700 BC - [dance] We get a free settler.
Pyramids coming shortly.
3550 BC - Shanghia is formed, by 2 game / forest squares.
Border expansion shows dyes to the north.
3350 BC - Russia scout is spotted.
No acceptable trade deals.
3100 BC - A major silk patch is spotted.
2900 BC - Shanghai is connected to the road net.
Pop a goody hut - angry warriors

Our warrior goes elite.
2800 BC - Expansionist overload - American spotted -
$32 gets us Ceromonial burial
2750 BC - Cash back to $32, we get pottery.
2630 BC - Shanghia completes settler, orders Barracks, tons of shields, but standard growth.
2470 BC - Pop a goody hut - ANOTHER free settler

2430 BC - Canton is formed, the silks are secured.
2390 BC - Nanking is formed - very far from capital, but 2 dyes next to it.
Worker is ordered.
2270 BC - Dyes connected to core cities. Start irragation toward Canton.
2230 BC - I spot the Russian borders.
2150 BC - Alphabet completed, start on writing.
$27 gets us an American worker. We need more, this is a start.
That worker moves to start toward the dyes.
We trade Alphabet to America for $25 and Bronze working.

Summary - Concentrate on the Pyramids - Remember, all buildings reduce corrution.

LeeKendter
Dark Sheer (currently playing) <<<
smegged (on deck)
Thiazi

Dark Sheer · Mar 22, 2002, 02:16 AM

I got the game and will post the result within 24 hours.

Usually I can post it much faster if I am at home, but I am in Beijing and I need to post from Office instead of from Home.

Dark Sheer · Mar 22, 2002, 10:46 PM

I have finished the 20 turns and here is a summary;

1990BC(0) - Pre-turn. Change Canton to worker. We need more workers for a game with low corruption. Need more road for income!

1790BC(5) - Russian declare war on us for refuse to give contact with America.

1750BC(6) - Killed a Russian warrior and captured 2 workers (was a settler). Discovered angry barbarians and warrior become elite.

1725BC(7) - Smolensk destroyed.

1675BC(9) - Tsingtao established.

1625BC(10) - Russian warrior attacked our warrior and our warrior survived to become elite.

1575BC(12) - Another attack from Russian warrior and another Elite Chinese warrior. Dispersed a barbarian camp for 25gp.

1525BC(13) - Bought The Wheel from Greece for 80gp. Our warrior defeated a spearman, wow!

1500BC(14) - The Tartar teaches the chinese Horseback Riding.

1400BC(18) - Killed another spearman and we lost a warrior. Got Peace Treaty with Russian for 7gp, Iron Working and Writing.

1350BC(20) - General Sheer step down from the seat of power.

There are both horse and iron but none is within our border. We need to build more settlers and spearman. I think this game is going to be a better one for the Chinese. However, we need to capitalise on the expansion as soon as possible as we are surrounded by America, Greece and Russia.

Here is the savegame.

LKendter · Mar 23, 2002, 05:03 AM

playing
LeeKendter
Dark Sheer
smegged (playing) <<
Thiazi (on deck)

Well Barracks are looking needed in this one

smegged · Mar 23, 2002, 03:23 PM

got it

smegged · Mar 23, 2002, 10:34 PM

Inheritted turn.

Contact with America traded to Russia for Mysticism + 5 gold
Contact with Egypt and Japan traded from america for writing + 25 gold
Japan is broke
Contact with Russia traded to Egypt for 38 gold
Science set to 80%
lux set to 20%, entertainer in beijing fired

1325

Animators hired
GOTO should NOT be used

America demands 27. He is refused but doesn't declare war.
I give him one gold instead

1300

We complete the pyramids. Beijing starts on barracks.
Xinjian founded
starts settler

1275

Shanghai finishes temple, starts settler
barb camp yeilds 25 gold
Nanking changed to settler to steal horsies

1250

Beijing builds barracks, starts spearman
We should crank spears from beijing and settlers from our lesser cities until all the land is full (with any building lowering corruption, we can effectively have as many buildings as we want)
Philosophy from America for 95 gold (and improved relations)
All a large treasury is good for in this age is to attract tribute demands and wars

1225

Nanking builds settler
Sent to take horses

1200

Canton spearman vetoed in favour of barracks (then settlers/spearmen)
Tsingtou builds worker, starts temple

1175

zzzz

1150

Shanghai builds settler, sent to grab iron. Spear from Beijing sent to canton (use canton's

warrior to go to shanghai settler location.

1125

Chengdu founded next to horsies - worker started

1100

zzzz

Please rushbuild the temple in Nanking in 3 turns

LKendter · Mar 23, 2002, 10:38 PM

Up Next - Thaizi
Are we working toward the GL?

smegged · Mar 23, 2002, 10:42 PM

Blue city locations are URGENT and of supreme strategic importance.

Red dots come next and are of good strategic value. They should be powerhouses in the future.

Purple are long term plans if nothing else happens to the land by then.

PLEASE send the settler to the blue dot near the iron close to Russian land. I cannot stress enough its importance. It is on river, so will grow RAPIDLY and will give us a source of iron and a staging point for any wars we have in the future with Russia.

Also, keep sending the spears from Beijing into our cities until we have at least two per city. If someone really wants to build a wonder, literature should be available in a few turns, and the Oracle could be used as a placeholder. Since Canton has a barracks, it could be used to build the spears instead of Beijing, if a wonder was to be started. (We should be able outtech the ai fast enough soon anyway).

Thiazi · Mar 24, 2002, 12:55 AM

Got it. I'll post tonight or in the morning.

Thiazi · Mar 24, 2002, 03:04 PM

1100 BC: Purchase Literature from America for 14 gold. (Saves us 3 turns)

1075 BC: Start Great Library in Beijing (37 turns).

1025 BC: Lower science rate to 60%, we are now making about 3 to 4 gold per turn, before we were losing between 4 to 6 gold per turn.

950 BC: The city of Hangchow is formed.

875 BC: The city of Tienstin is formed.

850 BC: The city of Tatung is formed.

710 BC: A settler is killed, he was escorted but I had sent the escort ahead to scout, not a good move on my part. Map Making is researched, start Code of Laws.

670 BC: Trade Map Making to Greece for Mathematics, territory map and 2 gold. I tried to acquire Polytheism but the only way to get it at a reasonable price is to trade our world map and I wasn't sure if you guys wanted to start doing that yet. It will be the next leaders decision but we can get Polytehiesm from Egypt for our WM and 40 gold. The city of Macao is established.

We have two more settlers ready to start new cities in the next 1 to 2 turns, I would have reached all of the blue areas, if it was not for the slain settler. I forgot to switch Canton to a spear factory, so we are a little thin on defense. Sorry about that, it just never even occured to me to do that. The Great Library is progressing very nicely and the competition that we have should be lagging far behind us.

Mar 19, 2002, 08:56 PM	#1
LKendter Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 15,927	LK18 - China, mod, low corruption. Worker automate is not fair is sucession games - please do not use it. Also, no long go to orders. Don't fortify ships in the middle of the ocean. Patch 1.17 required. playing LeeKendter (on deck) Dark Sheer smegged Thiazi (playing) Diplomatic victory is DISABLED. Civ = China World = Large, Wet, Warm, 5 Billion, large continents. Difficulty = Regent Barbarians = Roaming # Civs = 12 24 hours to verify you can play your turn, 48 hours to play. Your choice, up to 20 turns. You can always play less. Mod warning I am curious what effect lower corruption has one the game. I check every building to reduce corruption __________________ Check out Lee's civ site . You can read about my RB games. NEW Oct 15, 2012 - Added Civ4 Adv55. The LK series is back - LK148, world map as Greece is in progress Last edited by LKendter; Apr 10, 2002 at 03:45 PM.

Mar 19, 2002, 09:13 PM	#3
LKendter Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 15,927	Hmmm.... Well what would you call it then? After all, I have seen playing as a new civ called a variant. __________________ Check out Lee's civ site . You can read about my RB games. NEW Oct 15, 2012 - Added Civ4 Adv55. The LK series is back - LK148, world map as Greece is in progress

Mar 19, 2002, 10:01 PM	#5
Charis Realms Beyond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest, USA Posts: 1,837	We're on their turf Keep in mind that distinction of 'making it harder' only came up in another realm (D1/D2), and that in response to a lot of confusion over what a variant was. His usage is consistent with the definition of the word: - Having or exhibiting variation; differing. - Deviating from a standard, usually by only a slight difference. (American Heritage) So Carbon we're the ones with the odd definition, taking it to mean 'non-standard with the goal of increasing challenge and providing variety' On the other hand... it might be a good idea to use 'mod' to denote changes in the actual hard-coded rules (which AI must also obey) and 'variant' in which you self-limit your strategy without actually modifying the bic or save file. As I look over the mod forums here and at Apolyton, this particular change, with reduces-corruption flag attached to several buildings, seems to top peoples lists for do-it-yourself simple rule changes to "fix things I don't like". What I'm not sure is if it's a simple 'flag' where having more than one such building is pointless, or whether there is some cumulative %reduction so the very act of having more bldgs will wipe out corruption. In any case... good luck LK! Charis

Mar 19, 2002, 10:14 PM	#6
LKendter Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 15,927	Well, I played around some before starting. Added another building to corruptted city. The wastage dropped some with additional buildings. You can't seem to get rid of the last 1 / 1 of wastage, but... Oh well, enough discussion on Mod / variant. Time to start getting players to sign up. __________________ Check out Lee's civ site . You can read about my RB games. NEW Oct 15, 2012 - Added Civ4 Adv55. The LK series is back - LK148, world map as Greece is in progress

Mar 20, 2002, 05:36 AM	#8
LKendter Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 15,927	Dark Sheer, you are #2. I am sure by the time I get home tonight in 10 hours, this puppy will be ready to go. __________________ Check out Lee's civ site . You can read about my RB games. NEW Oct 15, 2012 - Added Civ4 Adv55. The LK series is back - LK148, world map as Greece is in progress

Mar 19, 2002, 09:05 PM	#2
Carbon_Copy Elemental Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 623	Variant? Hrm..."variant" typically means something you do to make the game harder. Making every building reduce corruption makes the game decidedly easier. I will agree, it's an interesting idea (and probably closer to how things work in real life than having every city outside of a day's drive from your capitals be utterly unproductive), but believe me you, the variant players tend to get a little touchy about what is or isn't a variant.

Mar 19, 2002, 09:20 PM	#4
Carbon_Copy Elemental Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 623	I'd call it a mod. That's what it is, basically.

Mar 20, 2002, 12:45 AM	#7
Dark Sheer Deity Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 2,096	I have only played in Open SG so far and I would like to have a go at this one.

Mar 20, 2002, 07:06 AM	#9
smegged Psi Cop Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 413	yeah, why not I'm a bit short of games at the moment, so I'll give this one a go. I would prefer it if it's on Monarch difficulty, but such is life .

Mar 20, 2002, 12:32 PM	#10
Thiazi Warlord Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 229	This should be an interesting game and assuming spots are still open, I'm in.

Mar 21, 2002, 04:41 PM	#11
LKendter Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 15,927	4000 BC - Beijing is formed, by a river 3700 BC - [dance] We get a free settler. Pyramids coming shortly. 3550 BC - Shanghia is formed, by 2 game / forest squares. Border expansion shows dyes to the north. 3350 BC - Russia scout is spotted. No acceptable trade deals. 3100 BC - A major silk patch is spotted. 2900 BC - Shanghai is connected to the road net. Pop a goody hut - angry warriors Our warrior goes elite. 2800 BC - Expansionist overload - American spotted - $32 gets us Ceromonial burial 2750 BC - Cash back to $32, we get pottery. 2630 BC - Shanghia completes settler, orders Barracks, tons of shields, but standard growth. 2470 BC - Pop a goody hut - ANOTHER free settler 2430 BC - Canton is formed, the silks are secured. 2390 BC - Nanking is formed - very far from capital, but 2 dyes next to it. Worker is ordered. 2270 BC - Dyes connected to core cities. Start irragation toward Canton. 2230 BC - I spot the Russian borders. 2150 BC - Alphabet completed, start on writing. $27 gets us an American worker. We need more, this is a start. That worker moves to start toward the dyes. We trade Alphabet to America for $25 and Bronze working. Summary - Concentrate on the Pyramids - Remember, all buildings reduce corrution. LeeKendter Dark Sheer (currently playing) <<< smegged (on deck) Thiazi __________________ Check out Lee's civ site . You can read about my RB games. NEW Oct 15, 2012 - Added Civ4 Adv55. The LK series is back - LK148, world map as Greece is in progress

Mar 22, 2002, 02:16 AM	#12
Dark Sheer Deity Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 2,096	I got it I got the game and will post the result within 24 hours. Usually I can post it much faster if I am at home, but I am in Beijing and I need to post from Office instead of from Home.

Mar 22, 2002, 10:46 PM	#13
Dark Sheer Deity Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 2,096	I am done with my turn I have finished the 20 turns and here is a summary; 1990BC(0) - Pre-turn. Change Canton to worker. We need more workers for a game with low corruption. Need more road for income! 1790BC(5) - Russian declare war on us for refuse to give contact with America. 1750BC(6) - Killed a Russian warrior and captured 2 workers (was a settler). Discovered angry barbarians and warrior become elite. 1725BC(7) - Smolensk destroyed. 1675BC(9) - Tsingtao established. 1625BC(10) - Russian warrior attacked our warrior and our warrior survived to become elite. 1575BC(12) - Another attack from Russian warrior and another Elite Chinese warrior. Dispersed a barbarian camp for 25gp. 1525BC(13) - Bought The Wheel from Greece for 80gp. Our warrior defeated a spearman, wow! 1500BC(14) - The Tartar teaches the chinese Horseback Riding. 1400BC(18) - Killed another spearman and we lost a warrior. Got Peace Treaty with Russian for 7gp, Iron Working and Writing. 1350BC(20) - General Sheer step down from the seat of power. There are both horse and iron but none is within our border. We need to build more settlers and spearman. I think this game is going to be a better one for the Chinese. However, we need to capitalise on the expansion as soon as possible as we are surrounded by America, Greece and Russia. Here is the savegame.

Mar 23, 2002, 05:03 AM	#14
LKendter Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 15,927	playing LeeKendter Dark Sheer smegged (playing) << Thiazi (on deck) Well Barracks are looking needed in this one __________________ Check out Lee's civ site . You can read about my RB games. NEW Oct 15, 2012 - Added Civ4 Adv55. The LK series is back - LK148, world map as Greece is in progress

Mar 23, 2002, 03:23 PM	#15
smegged Psi Cop Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 413	got it

Mar 23, 2002, 10:34 PM	#16
smegged Psi Cop Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 413	Inheritted turn. Contact with America traded to Russia for Mysticism + 5 gold Contact with Egypt and Japan traded from america for writing + 25 gold Japan is broke Contact with Russia traded to Egypt for 38 gold Science set to 80% lux set to 20%, entertainer in beijing fired 1325 Animators hired GOTO should NOT be used America demands 27. He is refused but doesn't declare war. I give him one gold instead 1300 We complete the pyramids. Beijing starts on barracks. Xinjian founded starts settler 1275 Shanghai finishes temple, starts settler barb camp yeilds 25 gold Nanking changed to settler to steal horsies 1250 Beijing builds barracks, starts spearman We should crank spears from beijing and settlers from our lesser cities until all the land is full (with any building lowering corruption, we can effectively have as many buildings as we want) Philosophy from America for 95 gold (and improved relations) All a large treasury is good for in this age is to attract tribute demands and wars 1225 Nanking builds settler Sent to take horses 1200 Canton spearman vetoed in favour of barracks (then settlers/spearmen) Tsingtou builds worker, starts temple 1175 zzzz 1150 Shanghai builds settler, sent to grab iron. Spear from Beijing sent to canton (use canton's warrior to go to shanghai settler location. 1125 Chengdu founded next to horsies - worker started 1100 zzzz Please rushbuild the temple in Nanking in 3 turns

Mar 23, 2002, 10:38 PM	#17
LKendter Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 15,927	Up Next - Thaizi Are we working toward the GL? __________________ Check out Lee's civ site . You can read about my RB games. NEW Oct 15, 2012 - Added Civ4 Adv55. The LK series is back - LK148, world map as Greece is in progress

Mar 23, 2002, 10:42 PM	#18
smegged Psi Cop Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 413	Dotmap Blue city locations are URGENT and of supreme strategic importance. Red dots come next and are of good strategic value. They should be powerhouses in the future. Purple are long term plans if nothing else happens to the land by then. PLEASE send the settler to the blue dot near the iron close to Russian land. I cannot stress enough its importance. It is on river, so will grow RAPIDLY and will give us a source of iron and a staging point for any wars we have in the future with Russia. Also, keep sending the spears from Beijing into our cities until we have at least two per city. If someone really wants to build a wonder, literature should be available in a few turns, and the Oracle could be used as a placeholder. Since Canton has a barracks, it could be used to build the spears instead of Beijing, if a wonder was to be started. (We should be able outtech the ai fast enough soon anyway). Attached Thumbnails

Mar 24, 2002, 12:55 AM	#19
Thiazi Warlord Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 229	Got it. I'll post tonight or in the morning.

Mar 24, 2002, 03:04 PM	#20
Thiazi Warlord Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 229	1100 BC: Purchase Literature from America for 14 gold. (Saves us 3 turns) 1075 BC: Start Great Library in Beijing (37 turns). 1025 BC: Lower science rate to 60%, we are now making about 3 to 4 gold per turn, before we were losing between 4 to 6 gold per turn. 950 BC: The city of Hangchow is formed. 875 BC: The city of Tienstin is formed. 850 BC: The city of Tatung is formed. 710 BC: A settler is killed, he was escorted but I had sent the escort ahead to scout, not a good move on my part. Map Making is researched, start Code of Laws. 670 BC: Trade Map Making to Greece for Mathematics, territory map and 2 gold. I tried to acquire Polytheism but the only way to get it at a reasonable price is to trade our world map and I wasn't sure if you guys wanted to start doing that yet. It will be the next leaders decision but we can get Polytehiesm from Egypt for our WM and 40 gold. The city of Macao is established. We have two more settlers ready to start new cities in the next 1 to 2 turns, I would have reached all of the blue areas, if it was not for the slain settler. I forgot to switch Canton to a spear factory, so we are a little thin on defense. Sorry about that, it just never even occured to me to do that. The Great Library is progressing very nicely and the competition that we have should be lagging far behind us.

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