TAM Civics

[Laurino]

ok we need to work on the civics. As we all know, the TAM civics aren't the greatest out there!..

So feel free to share all ideas you have on the subject.

[ohcrapitsnico]

Are you interested in devising a whole new civics system?or coming up with new civcs/effects?

[Hypnotoad]

As for new civic effects:

I think that Empire should allow you to reduce your maintance costs substantially and/or reduce the distance factor in maintance costs. Right now it is hard to conquer the world mostly because of maintance costs. I like the idea of empire allowing you to start building a really big... well.... empire.

[Laurino]

Well I had normal civics in mind... But if you have ideas for a better system, feel free to share them

[Hypnotoad]

If you overhaul the religious system, you might try to overhaul the religious civics as well. Perhaps something like:

Default: Animism (no effect)
God-King: +50% production/commerce in the city (I don't know -- that the FfH II effect)
Priest-class: +2 priest specialists in the capital, +1 priest specialist in the 3 largest cities.
Holy war (allowed by Christianity): +2 xp in cities with Christianity, less war.
I don't know -- something else

I just made those up quickly, but they give a rough sense. The idea would be to provide for generic religion in the early game.

[ohcrapitsnico]

Just a rough idea: There could be governments you can choose from like despotism, monarchy, republic, oligarchy, imperialism, etc. and from their you can choose civics related to that government.

[Drtad]

In general, I like the TAM civics, but I think some of the effects shoulc be changed for warlords. For example, Empire should reduce the maintenance cost for your cities that happen when you get vassals. But one major thing is that most of them come at the very end, they should be evenly distributed.

[Chode]

The most important changes that need to be made are:

More civics early. Far too often was I already thousands of points ahead of the next civ before I got a civic that actually helped my playstyle, and then it didnt even matter at that point.

Condense the civics. Make a purpose for each civic. For instance, there are two economic civics that are so alike that they really werent that unique (I think it was plutocracy and one other).

Those are the two important changes I had in mind. Now here is a suggestion for you. What about making each civic have a negative aspect as well? Sort of like how Alpha Centauri had negatives for each "civic" choice. Might spice up the game a bit, and force you to make tough decisions on "If I really want this civic, am I willing to sacrifice a little of this?"

[Hypnotoad]

I agree with Chode's post. I like the negative aspect idea.

In general, I find that probably the most important thing is to add more real decisions to the civics and to make them available sooner in the game. Right now Aristocracy is basically just better than the other civics you can choose from, for example.

[Jet]

Here are some isolated suggestions, but of course in general all the pieces should be designed to work together -

More than one kind of slavery. Not in the sense of different pop-rushing mechanisms, but different civics that are named as being variants of slavery. Helots, for one.

Whatever the Serfdom civic is, +75% or +100% worker productivity. People don't seem to use it much at +50%; I don't understand why it's still in Vanilla (maybe I just don't know how to use it...?). It might be a good one to enable earlier, maybe as a builder alternative to Council of Elders.

Some kind of Democracy thing.

Depending on what is done with religions, options including God King (or call it "Pharoah" for flavor), Organized Religion (reduced maintenance?). Somehow reflect how religion was intimately tied into politics (at least in Rome, and I think Greece, and I think everywhere.) Keep theocracy but maybe give unhappiness for persecution.

Drafting: pop requirement = 4, pop reduction = 2, unhappiness = 0. That might break it... but try it. As is, it's not strong enough.

Migration available at Pastoralism. Also Pastoralism enables Goat Pasture (easy option for graphic: empty pasture), buildable on hills for +1 food. Migration: build units with food; +1 Food from Pasture and Goat Pasture; -1 Food from Farms and Fishing Boats; -50% distance maintenance.

[Agramon]

Empire Suggestion:

No Maintenance from palace distance
-xx% War weariness since your citizens don't care for any wars on the other side of the knwn world.
-25% Unit production
-25% production of buildings to simulate corruption or overboarding bureaucracy
requires free religion (if that's possible)

I like the idea of sacrificing one thing to be able to get another.