Specialist Economy (Philosophical) vs Cottage Economy (Financial)

[Artifex1]

Which do you enjoy playing more and which do you think is most powerful?

Do you ever run them both sometimes (i.e spec economy with a financial leader and cottages).

[kniteowl]

What I like to do Sometimes To test out The Strength of the SE is to play a Custom Against 6 Financial Civs while I play the Specialist Economy... You Run through the Techs SO FAST Sometimes I swear I'm Playing on Monarch or Emp Level.

[flamingzaroc121]

i play a hybrid economy with Lizzy (Phi/Fin)

[CivGuy61]

I've still trying both out right now but I think i'm starting to like the SE economy for my capital city only. The other cities I run a pure cottage economy. Oh and I use Washington.

[Wlauzon]

I usually run a mixed bag, but I usually specialize from 2 to 4 cities.

Assuming the map cooperates, I try to get one super-food city for research and a GP factory, one money factory city full of cottages, and one or two super hammer cities, where I build things like Ironworks and that late in the game can churn out Modern Armor at one per turn.

[OceansEleven]

I just played with Elizabeth, which is both Philosophical and Financial, and just totally destroyed all the others in everything. Had a bad start, but built about 5 or 6 cottages in each city, and wham. I had a 10-15 Tech lead by the end. I had tanks before others even had infantry. 1 guy was very strong, stronger than me with all my units. But he just had like 50 artil. Anyways he was next to me, and I knew he would be a problem when he got to industrialism and went to war with him. Saladin, the guy, had all his troops set up in Baghdad, on my border. Hehe, the idiot. After my first wave of attack, I killed nearly 1/4 of his power. He, in the next turn, killed about 1/8 of mine. Not good enough. I got all my tanks and stuff to med up in my cities, and 3 turns later, Baghdad was tooken over. From there on, I just got some other civs to declare war on him, when wasn't a smart idea. They all wanted to get cities just as much as me -.-

Well I just owned that game so hard. On Prince level too. That was one of the hardest ownages I've committed. I didn't need to go to war with anyone for territroy, so I was lucky. My power sucked as hell in the beginning. I was way below. But once the Cavalry/Infantry came, I sky rocketed. In the end, I was number 1 in everything.

Anyways, in that game, I learned the power of the Great People Farm. Though mine really wasn't a farm, it was more of a Great People Wonders in the beginning. Then later on, had 6 specialists along with the wonders, addition to the National Epic and already Philsophical. I had 3 Golden Ages which rocked. Used a lot of my Great People for Super Specialists, and other times just for tech. Good game.

I'd say the Financial is better though. I only constructed so many Great People, and that was only in my capital. Financial + Colossus works out to be ownage, as I have found out in my past games. Hehe.

[ElJojo]

I think hybrid is the way to go. Early on, you can rely exclusively on scientists, especially if you are running representation from the pyramids. It's nice for warmongering or for preparing a cultural victory.
If the game keeps going on it's going to be harder to keep the pace using only specialists, well I find it harder. So if a quick victory is not reachable I switch to cottage little by little.
Russia may be the exception, their UB gives you a lot of specialists.

[ThomasHardy]

I am playing an immortal game with the chinese leader Qin. I started with my capital as the unit producing city, another city as the specialist hiring GP farm (globe theater, mosty food improvements) and my other cities running as close to pure cottage as possible. Because of some hills that I mined, some of the cottage cities actually produce some hammers, especially under Universal Sufferage.

The hybrid setup has allowed me to keep up in tech, produce enough units and also get a good flow of GP's. I like it.

[CivGuy61]

Originally Posted by OceansEleven

I just played with Elizabeth, which is both Philosophical and Financial, and just totally destroyed all the others in everything. Had a bad start, but built about 5 or 6 cottages in each city, and wham. I had a 10-15 Tech lead by the end. I had tanks before others even had infantry. 1 guy was very strong, stronger than me with all my units. But he just had like 50 artil. Anyways he was next to me, and I knew he would be a problem when he got to industrialism and went to war with him. Saladin, the guy, had all his troops set up in Baghdad, on my border. Hehe, the idiot. After my first wave of attack, I killed nearly 1/4 of his power. He, in the next turn, killed about 1/8 of mine. Not good enough. I got all my tanks and stuff to med up in my cities, and 3 turns later, Baghdad was tooken over. From there on, I just got some other civs to declare war on him, when wasn't a smart idea. They all wanted to get cities just as much as me -.-

Well I just owned that game so hard. On Prince level too. That was one of the hardest ownages I've committed. I didn't need to go to war with anyone for territroy, so I was lucky. My power sucked as hell in the beginning. I was way below. But once the Cavalry/Infantry came, I sky rocketed. In the end, I was number 1 in everything.

Anyways, in that game, I learned the power of the Great People Farm. Though mine really wasn't a farm, it was more of a Great People Wonders in the beginning. Then later on, had 6 specialists along with the wonders, addition to the National Epic and already Philsophical. I had 3 Golden Ages which rocked. Used a lot of my Great People for Super Specialists, and other times just for tech. Good game.

I'd say the Financial is better though. I only constructed so many Great People, and that was only in my capital. Financial + Colossus works out to be ownage, as I have found out in my past games. Hehe.

10-15 Tech Lead?? ***T I have to play as Elizabeth.

[InvisibleStalke]

Originally Posted by CivGuy61

10-15 Tech Lead?? ***T I have to play as Elizabeth.

I really don't like playing with Elizabeth - some of my worst games were with her. The problem is that the two traits do not synergize very well at all. You are financial so you want to cottage everything in site. And you are philosophical so you want to run specialists everywhere. Not possible to do both well, so you end up emphasizing one trait and not getting the advantage of the other.

Better combinations are financial / aggressive or philosophical / spiritual.

[acidsatyr]

I agree 100% ^

[Meatbuster]

Philosophical and Financial seems like an either-or for me. I can't have both. But even in Financial I will run one huge GP city, and in Philosophical I'll have a couple of smaller hybrid cities instead.

[Wlauzon]

Originally Posted by InvisibleStalke

I really don't like playing with Elizabeth - some of my worst games were with her. The problem is that the two traits do not synergize very well at all.

My feelings also. I have tried Lizzy a few times, and it just does not work well for the way I play.

My personal favorites are Asoka for hoarding religions, or Washington.

Washington, with FIN and ORG seems to work well. The Financial gives you more money, and the Organized reduces upkeep costs, so you can expand a lot faster without going broke. Especially good for huge maps, not so good for small ones.

[DaveMcW]

Cottages for the win. Even as Philosophical.

[OceansEleven]

Originally Posted by InvisibleStalke

I really don't like playing with Elizabeth - some of my worst games were with her. The problem is that the two traits do not synergize very well at all. You are financial so you want to cottage everything in site. And you are philosophical so you want to run specialists everywhere. Not possible to do both well, so you end up emphasizing one trait and not getting the advantage of the other.

Better combinations are financial / aggressive or philosophical / spiritual.

True. The thing was for me, my capital couldn't get too many farms. Had like 3 Spices and 2 Silks or something nearby, and a Pig resource there too. I built 3 farms, the plantations, 1 cottage, and the rest were mines/workshops, but I still got the capital to whip out Great People like crazy

[InvisibleStalke]

Originally Posted by OceansEleven

True. The thing was for me, my capital couldn't get too many farms. Had like 3 Spices and 2 Silks or something nearby, and a Pig resource there too. I built 3 farms, the plantations, 1 cottage, and the rest were mines/workshops, but I still got the capital to whip out Great People like crazy

I think if you played a philosophical leader emphasizing their strength- with lots of early specialists in several cities and ran a monster GP farm with lots of specialists later, then you would have gotten way more GP and gotten them earlier. From what you describe you must have gotten most of your GPPs from wonders and they generate nowhere near as many GPPs as having lots of specialists will.

With what you describe you aren't emphasizing the strengths of either Philosophical or Financial. Maybe you are simply too good at optimizing the rest of your play for this level to be a challenge and you should step up a level? I doubt you were getting the help you think you were from Elizabeth's traits.

When I first stepped up to Monarch, I played with Elizabeth twice, thinking that her two traits were the most powerful. Yes I got lots of great people, but I've run more focussed philo economies later that have had tons more great people. And more focussed cottage economies that researched like crazy. And both of my Elizabeth games were lost.

Later I got better at Monarch and I win on Emperor now - and I wouldn't go back to using Elizabeth. She looks good, but you just can't get the best out of both of her traits. And at higher levels you really need to maximize your traits and use them in ways that work well together.

[Bast]

I usually play CE with Victoria. But I am thinking about trying out Elizabeth.

With Elizabeth you have to go CE. Financial + Stock exchanges? Sorry, that's a no-brainer and there are no compromises there.

The question is how to use Philosophical. What I plan to do is set up two GP farms. Divide the National Epic, Oxford University, National Park wonders between them and take turns popping Great people.

I say that's the best way to go.

[Dirk1302]

I play sort of hybrid with every leader mostly dependent on the map, With Ghandi i'll lean to farms, with Darius i'll cottage some more. With Liz i also tend to go for cottages, the philosophical trait ensures i can bulb and get some academies up.

[PaulusIII]

It really depends whether or not I get to build/control the Pyramids or not. Without the Pyramids, a specialist economy loses a lot of its power and I find a cottage economy to be more powerful in such a case.

Philosophical is often cited as the SE trait, but I find myself leaning towards a SE more with Industrious. Philosophical for me mostly helps in cranking out GP's from the GP farm. Industrious helps in getting the wonder up that makes the SE run.

And whether I build the Pyramids depends: do I want bricks or axes? That question really depends on the start I get.

[TheMeInTeam]

Thread resurrection?

Anyway, since it has been, I'll say that CE is better late game and SE early (if you have mids, otherwise they're similar)

My best games have always come from mids-charged SE. The early game is so important. If you find a way to establish an advantage then, it can be carried through.