Loco / King Kong Embassy

General_W · Nov 29, 2006

Last Update: Turn 109

Team Loco
Leader: King Kong
Civ: Gandhi, India
Traits: Spiritual, Industrious
UU: Fast Worker

Current Trades: None
Resources Available for Trade: No Route Established

Technology to Trade: None
Missing Technology: Hunting (40), Literature (200), Currency (400), Metal Casting (450), Civil Service (800).

Gold to Trade: 12 (11gpt)

Known towns:

Short Line (Capital)
B and O
Reading
Pennsylvania
(Apparently they are Monopoly fans!)

Spoiler First info about Loco :

Kylearan · Nov 29, 2006

Hi,

General_W said:
Couple notes on this letter I'm intentionally being vague about whether or not we've met other Civs I think it's for the best to keep that to ourselves for as long as possible.

Agreed!

Why the complicated half-sentence about "Although it should not be mistaken for a sign of weakness", though? It's not that we have to fear a declaration of war from them at the moment.

-Kylearan

General_W · Nov 29, 2006

Kylearan said:
It's not that we have to fear a declaration of war from them at the moment

True, true. I was just trying to sound peacful without looking fearful or weak.

But maybe that's not needed in this case. Maybe I can just delete that line, and start with "we are a naturally peaceful people..."
Yeah... I like that better.

Other thoughts?

Memphus · Nov 29, 2006

I am for taking out that as well, because it is quite evident we are not weak...

peter grimes · Nov 29, 2006

I'm not at my cIV computer right now, but I'm wondering if Kong yet registers in our statistics screen?

Just curious where we stand regarding Soldiers, Crops, Manufactories, &c.

Memphus · Nov 29, 2006

peter grimes said:
I'm not at my cIV computer right now, but I'm wondering if Kong yet registers in our statistics screen?

Just curious where we stand regarding Soldiers, Crops, Manufactories, &c.

No not till next turn as technically we havn't met them yet

General_W · Nov 30, 2006

Ok – big Update on Loco!!!

We can now access all their info.

Here's the highlights:

They have 4 towns:
Short Line (Capital)
B and O
Reading
Pennsylvania

(Apparently they are Monopoly fans!)

They are up 2 technologies for sure on us: Monotheism and Sailing

We're up 8 techs on them! :wow:

Monarchy, Code of Laws, Civil Service, Alphabet, Hunting, Animal husbandry, Iron Working, Metal Casting.

According to the power graphs, compared to Loco, we are:
TWICE their strength in GNP (gold)
30% stronger in power
5% weaker in crops
30% weaker in culture
TWICE as weak in MFG (production)

I'd say this pretty clearly indicates a wonder build happening for Loco right now. They've obviously focused on growth and production at the expense of technology – and I'd expect to see another wonder (or 2?) appear from Loco in the next few turns.

Here's the Money screenshot:

And here's my revised letter that I propose to send right away.

Dear King Kong & all Locos,

Greetings from the golden halls of Epsilon Eridani! The Leader of Epsilon Team sends you his warm regards.

Our humble scout, "Dark Puma" has caught sight of the borders of your glorious land... we are pleased to find we are not alone among the civilized nations of this world, and look forward to mutual cooperation with your glorious people.

We are a naturally peaceful people, and if you’ll agree, we believe there is much we can learn and trade together. We see that we have several immediate opportunities for trade, and if you're interested, we'd like to try to arrange some equitable swaps. I'm confident you'll find The Leader to be most fair.

So how say you? What are your intentions for this world?
We eagerly await your reply.

Sincerely Yours,
Foreign Minister General_W
Epsilon Team!

peter grimes · Nov 30, 2006

I like the tempered version

They may only be 2x our MFG due to more cities, no?

Animal Husbandry for Monotheism?

EDIT: I was looking at the wrong tech values

Offer Animal Husbandry(100) for Sailing (100)?

General_W · Nov 30, 2006

Thanks Peter – may plan is to send this letter right on the heals of when Memphus plays the save.

Let's see what Loco says before we suggest any trades.
But I'd posit that we're going to need to be ready to accept a trade that is unbalanced in favor of Loco… we're far and away the tech leader, and if we want to keep trading – we need to be generous, imho.

Here's the current status (also in first post, for reference)
Loco: Sailing (100), Monotheism (120)
Epsilon: Hunting (40), Animal Husbandry (100), Iron Working (200), Monarchy (300), Alphabet (300), Code of Laws (350), Metal Casting (450), Civil Service (800).

If they ask us, I'd suggest something like They give Sail and Mono (=220) and we give Animal Husbandry, and Iron Working (=300) – and then maybe they owe us Archery (60)... but I wouldn't insist on that last part. Given how key a tech IW is, this is a pretty good deal for them… but I suspect they may already be working on IW (just a hunch) – so we really need to hear what they say first.

EDIT: ah - I like your edited tech proposal better! but still, I think we need to offer a trade that is tilted in their favor if it comes back to us to make the first offer.

Memphus · Nov 30, 2006

I am all for trading asap for Sailing ...why?

Pfiffle has no religion, as soon as we have sailing then we are trading with them...even without open borders our religion can spread :evil:

And Based on Pfiffle's behavior and relative distance I say they should be our first targets...

Result? Give away the farm to King Kong

Memphus · Nov 30, 2006

Oh yeah the save is sent

General_W · Nov 30, 2006

Thanks for the feedback!
Sent to UN rep "I am the future" and to Loco gmail. (teamloco.delta AT gmail DOT com)

Dear King Kong & all Locos,

Greetings from the golden halls of Epsilon Eridani! The Leader of Epsilon Team sends you his warm regards.

Our humble scout, "Dark Puma" has caught sight of the borders of your glorious land... we are pleased to find we are not alone among the civilized nations of this world, and look forward to mutual cooperation with your glorious people.

We are a naturally peaceful people, and if you’ll agree, we believe there is much we can learn and trade together. We see that we have several immediate opportunities for trade, and if you're interested, we'd like to try to arrange some equitable swaps. I'm confident you'll find The Leader to be most fair.

So how say you? What are your intentions for this world?
We eagerly await your reply.

Sincerely Yours,
Foreign Minister General_W
Epsilon Team!

P.S. Please let me know who you’d like me to communicate with on an ongoing basis.

Kylearan · Dec 1, 2006

Hi,

Memphus said:
I am all for trading asap for Sailing ...why?

Pfiffle has no religion, as soon as we have sailing then we are trading with them...even without open borders our religion can spread

I like this! :goodjob:

I'm also for trading with them in their favor, if must be.

-Kylearan

General_W · Dec 1, 2006

I agree wholeheartedly as well – we'll pursue trading (esp sailing) as vigorously as possible… as soon as we hear back from our initial letter.

We have good reason to believe we're the first contact for Loco – they surely would have traded for some of those base techs (like hunting or Animal husbandry) if they had met another team.

Hopefully they will be eager to deal!

General_W · Dec 1, 2006

Good News! :clap:

Got our first message back from Loco... more to come...

Epsilon Team,

I am not our foreign advisor, but I am sending this preliminary e-mail to inform you that we have recieved your message and are glad to have met you. I agree there are many trading possibilities between us. I am sure that Koondrad, who is our foreign advisor, will be along with another much more detailed and welcoming message shortly.

Jeejeep
Executive Leader
Team Loco

All in all - this is a very positive sign! They're working up a formal reply, and didn't want to make us wait too long. I like Loco already... :thumbsup:

peter grimes · Dec 1, 2006

So far so good

The Executive Leader, at least, seems to be a very responsible character. I hope this is just the tip of the iceberg!

Memphus · Dec 2, 2006

Well I guess we should wait for the formal reply but I would like to see a trade drafted up ASAP (ideally we need sailing in the next 5~6 turns as that is when our coastal city will be founded

and will open up trade routes with Pfiffle.

*Note Pfiffle may want to open borders at that point? (Extra trade income for them, possibility of religion spreading for us)

I would even offer them a tech for open borders, but I digress

In any event we should try to get as much out of King Kong as we can, especially sicne they don;t have Alpha yet...

General_W · Dec 2, 2006

I think we all agree though – sailing should be our #1 target to get asap... and then everything else we can! :thumbsup:

And I’m with you in being eager to get rolling with Loco here – but I think it’d be really premature to send another letter before we hear back… and equally premature to start drafting a return letter before we hear back.

Let’s not forget, it’s very possible Loco will offer a deal for both of their techs in their first letter – so lets give them another day or two to respond. It's really only been a little over 1 day since they promised us an official letter was coming.

We agree on our strategy, so writing a return draft should be really easy – but I’m afraid it would mostly be a waste of time to start a draft letter now before we hear what they officially have to say.

General_W · Dec 3, 2006

The long awaited official letter from Loco is here!

Greetings General_W and Team Epsilon

I hear that you've already spoken personally to our Leader. I'm sure you'll come to find that he is a fair and agreeable man.

It is good to hear that your people also have a desire for knowledge. We are always looking for ways to better understand the world that we have blessed with. Maybe you would like to purpose a trade in the future? I am sure that we would both find it very beneficial.

Regards
Koondrad
Team Loco

I must say, I’m a little under-whelmed! :lol:

If this is our diplomatic competition then we’re sitting pretty!

Here’s the letter I propose for a response:

Dear Koondrad & all Locos,

We appreciate your quick responses – it’s early still, but it sounds like we share a common foundation to build peace and prosperity for both our peoples.

We would like to propose a peace treaty and a technology trade.

First: The peace treaty: what if we both promised to not attack the other/declare war on the other without giving at least 10 turns of notice?
We believe this could give us a good safe foundation to work from – maybe we could even expand the minimum notice period as our relationship grows? We’re eager to hear any thoughts you have on this.

Second: Technology Trading: We’d like to offer you knowledge of Animal Husbandry and Hunting (total base science cost = 140 ) for Sailing (100 )
However, if you’re interested in a more aggressive deal, we can also offer you Iron Working and Hunting (total = 240 ) for your knowledge of Sailing and Monotheism (total = 220 )

The Leader has crafted both of these deals to be weighted heavily in your favor to show his good will and extend the hand of friendship with more than just flowery words.

How would you like to proceed? We eagerly await your reply.

Sincerely Yours,
Foreign Minister General_W
Epsilon Team!

Please offer feedback!
I’m obviously offering to give away quite a bit – we could probably easily trim hunting from both of those offers (given the great strategic value of Iron Working) – but given our huge tech lead over Loco – I’m of the opinion that we stand to gain quite a bit of much-needed diplomatic capital for a relatively cheap investment of 20-40 :science:

However – that’s just my initial thought! I’m waiting to send this till I’ve had a lot more feedback! So please speak up!

P.S. Here's the current status, for reference:
Loco: Sailing (100), Monotheism (120)
Epsilon: Hunting (40), Animal Husbandry (100), Iron Working (200), Monarchy (300), Alphabet (300), Code of Laws (350), Metal Casting (450), Civil Service (800).

Memphus · Dec 3, 2006

I like it, They will go for option number 2. If they don't then we can assume they are researching Iron Working.

Basically with out capital pulling in 50 :science:

a turn to other teams estimate ~30 :science:

we will always come out ahead if we continue to trade.

Not to Mention Pfiffle will have a heart attack once they see us gain other tehcs

Although it is early but I think Loco will prove to havea better diplomatic relationship with then Pfiffle

I would say send it as is!

Loco / King Kong Embassy

Councilor & Merlot Noble

compound eye

Councilor & Merlot Noble

Deity

...

Deity

Councilor & Merlot Noble

...

Councilor & Merlot Noble

Deity

Deity

Councilor & Merlot Noble

compound eye

Councilor & Merlot Noble

Councilor & Merlot Noble

...

Deity

Councilor & Merlot Noble

Councilor & Merlot Noble

Deity

Similar threads