Constitution Change - Revamp Chain of Command

[Shaitan]

The 4/14 game chat progressed only a single turn because the existing chain of command (COC) ran out. This is despite the fact that a Councilmember was attending the chat. He couldn't play the game because Trade was left off of the COC. [EDIT: Delete "Military is also absent from the COC."] The one turn was played by a departmental deputy, because his department was at least represented in the COC.

I would like to explore the revamping of Section G of the constitution to represent the full cabinet and make it a bit more clear who is in command and when. Hopefully this will make lost turns less likely.

This poll is to get feedback and popular opinion. The poll will run for 48 hours (until 5:00 GMT on 4/17) at which time I will post a Council vote.

Original Section of the Constitution:

Section G: Chain of Command

Point 1: In the event of absent of death of cabinet members, this Chain of Command would dictate who would take over.
Point 2: President
Vice President
Domestic Leader
Military Leader
Foreign Minister
Science Leader
Cultural Leader

Proposed replacement 1. This includes the missing departments and adds the deputies. COC is all department heads, then deputies.

Point 1: In the event of absence or death of one or more cabinet members, this Chain of Command will dictate who should take over.
Point 2: COC
President
Vice President
Domestic Leader
Military Leader
Foreign Minister
Science Leader
Cultural Leader
Trade Leader
Domestic Deputy
Military Deputy
Foreign Deputy
Science Deputy
Cultural Deputy
Trade Deputy


Proposed replacement 2. This also includes the missing departments and adds the deputies. COC is by department (Executive Leader [pres] then Executive Deputy [vice pres] then Domestic Leader then Domestic Deputy, etc)

Point 1: In the event of absence or death of one or more cabinet members, this Chain of Command will dictate who should take over.
Point 2: The COC is ranked by department. Within each department the Leader is ranked above the Deputy.
Point 3: COC
Executive Branch
Domestic Department
Military Department
Foreign Affairs Department
Science Department
Cultural Department
Trade Department


Proposed replacement 3. This option combines 1 and 2 and also adds the chat representatives. COC is by Leader first, then department.

Point 1: In the event of absence or death of one or more cabinet members, this Chain of Command will dictate who should take over.
Point 2: The COC is ranked by Leaders then departments. Within each department the elected Deputy outranks the Acting Department Representative (chat rep).
Point 3: COC
President
Vice President
Domestic Leader
Military Leader
Foreign Leader
Science Leader
Trade Leader
Executive Branch
Domestic Department
Military Department
Foreign Affairs Department
Science Department
Cultural Department
Trade Department


EDITED: I goofed - the Military Dept was already in the COC. Proposals have been edited to correct this.

[eyrei]

Once we actually hold elections, unelected officials should not be able to play the game. The chain of command needs to stop with the deputies. There may be a way to incorporate governors into this formula however. Therefore, I vote for option number one.

BTW. The military department is already represented in the COC. In fact, they were higher before your proposals. My vote for number one is contingent on this being corrected.

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by eyrei
BTW. The military department is already represented in the COC. In fact, they were higher before your proposals. My vote for number one is contingent on this being corrected.

Oops. Thanks for the catch. I've corrected it.

[Cyc]

The only change that was needed was the addition of the Trade Department to the Chain of Command. The position of player, normally held by the President, was offered to Skilord by the two senior members of the Cabinet. Skilord accepted and we went with it. There was no break down of the COC. Everything was above board and handled properly. I suggest we make an ammendment that would keep the members who do show up from drifting in the wind for an undetermined amount of time. I realize that was an awful lot of work you guys put into the proposed ammendment, but i don't think it addresses the problem.

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cyc
The only change that was needed was the addition of the Trade Department to the Chain of Command. The position of player, normally held by the President, was offered to Skilord by the two senior members of the Cabinet. Skilord accepted and we went with it. There was no break down of the COC. Everything was above board and handled properly. I suggest we make an ammendment that would keep the members who do show up from drifting in the wind for an undetermined amount of time. I realize that was an awful lot of work you guys put into the proposed ammendment, but i don't think it addresses the problem.

I respectfully disagree. Right now the point is moot, as Skilord is the only elected official, but, once elections do take place, the people will have elected certain individuals to high positions who they want to play the game. Two members of the cabinet (although again, right now it makes little difference) should not have the power to annoint someone 'player' for that turn. For one, those members of the cabinet should be in the COC, so this would never happen. The chain of command must also stop at some point, causing the turn to be delayed one day. If noone from the cabinet has the time to attend the turn chat, then it is highly unlikely the nation is prepared for those turns.

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Cyc
I suggest we make an ammendment that would keep the members who do show up from drifting in the wind for an undetermined amount of time. .

Definitely! I'm drafting a proposition for that as well. PM me if you have any specific ideas.

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by eyrei


Two members of the cabinet (although again, right now it makes little difference) should not have the power to annoint someone 'player' for that turn. For one, those members of the cabinet should be in the COC, so this would never happen. The chain of command must also stop at some point, causing the turn to be delayed one day. If noone from the cabinet has the time to attend the turn chat, then it is highly unlikely the nation is prepared for those turns.

Having been there, I can tell you that the reason SKILORD was asked to play was my responsibility alone.

Grey Fox indicated that he could not play, and that the turn should be played following the line of succession. Since I was not in that line, but your (Eyrei) fully designated representative from the Domestic department was, we chose to have him play. In order to follow the line of succession.

I can say that all of this was somewhat impacted by the frustration of waiting two hours to get all of this settled, and then when we could only play one turn, we decided to just end it there, and I refused to play since I was not in the line of succession that our fine President rightly wanted us to follow.

If you or anyone has concerns with the events of Sunday, please direct them at me, as I was probably the most vocal leader in the direction of our decisions.

Bill
Trade Leader

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX


Having been there, I can tell you that the reason SKILORD was asked to play was my responsibility alone.

Grey Fox indicated that he could not play, and that the turn should be played following the line of succession. Since I was not in that line, but your (Eyrei) fully designated representative from the Domestic department was, we chose to have him play. In order to follow the line of succession.

I can say that all of this was somewhat impacted by the frustration of waiting two hours to get all of this settled, and then when we could only play one turn, we decided to just end it there, and I refused to play since I was not in the line of succession that our fine President rightly wanted us to follow.

If you or anyone has concerns with the events of Sunday, please direct them at me, as I was probably the most vocal leader in the direction of our decisions.

Bill
Trade Leader

For the record, I do not have any problem with Skilord playing in that situation. I would like to avoid that situation coming up again, by extending the COC to include the missing departments and the deputies, as these are all elected positions. Once all of the government positions are filled by duly elected officials, I can see citizens (rightly) being upset by a non-elected official playing the turns. This time it worked out quite well, as Skilord is actually the only official that has been elected at this point.

[SKILORD]

Having been there, I can tell you that the reason SKILORD was asked to play was my responsibility alone.

well i did accept.

could we maybe add something about governors in there btw?

[Falcon02]

I propose a poll as to whether the appointed deputies (not elected) and Governers (elected) should be permitted into the Chain of Command.

[donsig]

I personally do not see anything wrong with SKILORD playing last Sunday. I also think it is appropriate to revamp the COC especially if it will help to put the turn chat sessions on a more regular basis and reduce non-gaming playing issues during turn chat time - so that the game can be played.

I have not voted yet as this is another tough one. First of all I think we need a cabinet resolution or popular poll or just a defacto agreement that we consider those currently holding electable positions to be 'elected officials' whether they were actually elected or not.

That said, the choice seems to be (to me) about what to do with the ad hoc representives that are appointed by the various department leaders. Excluding them would avoid many pitfalls and the after the fact debates that would arise. Including them avoid delays in the game.

OK, I've made up my mind. We go by department and include any ad hoc appointees that are made. Let's trust our leaders to make good descisions when they make appointments. Let's include governors after the departments and let's allow the President to appoint a player if no one else can be there at the appointed time!

Now I have to go see if one of the choices matches my conclusions.

[donsig]

Of course none of the choices fit my conclusions. Rather than abstain I voted 2 since this poll will not determine the final change that is made. (I assume that will take a cabinet vote.)

I would modify proposal 2 to add the ad hoc departmental appointes as ranking after the respective deputies. I would also add governors to the bottom of the COC: prov. 2 gov. then prov. 3 gov., etc. (I omit prov. 1 gov. since that is the domestic leader.)

[Falcon02]

I have nothing against Skilord playing the game, or the job he did. I just felt it was something that the issue deserved to go to a vote. Including deputies like myself, since some seem to be opposed and some for allowind deputies.

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I would suggest we add a point in the COC for the govs. like when everyone else is absent, 2 or more governors in total agreement can play. If they do not reach a consensus they can`t go on.

[Shaitan]

Proposal 1 is the obvious winner but several issues were raised in this thread regarding Governors and other elected officials as well as appointed officials. I am closing this poll and opening a new one to refine the changes to the Chain of Command.

[eyrei]

Bump. This information may be useful when deciding who should play tonights chat, as Grey Fox and I will probably not be here. Good luck!

PS. There is a link to another thread about the same topic within this thread. I am not sure which is more 'official', and I don't have time to figure it out, so check that one out too.