Development of New Mod- Ideas inside

[ArjunaEle]

Hey guys,
Its been a while. First off, I'd like to say excellent work on the mods so far, I like where the ideas and creativity are going. Its nice to see such a massive community of modders out there. So, in the moment of this great Zeitgeist, I have developed a few ideas which, if implemented efficiently and smoothly with classic Civ gameplay, I believe could really add that next dimension which Civ IV failed to bring to the table since Civ III. A fan of history (I am a professor of the profession, a Wizard of Was, if it pleases you), I think Civ IV hits a lot of the key historical ideas well, but a few things it...misses badly. So here is a list of changes/mods which I think would throw Civ IV over the top.

1.) Transmission of civics by trade, immigration as well as science
2.) Transmission of technology by universities- students, teachers, immigration
3.) Technology a global movement- radiates from discovery point- discoverers can explore detailed techs (will elaborate below, this one's trickier)
• All nations receive tech after two or three turns after discovered by any nation- first nation has an advantage of exploring a minor tech associated with the discovered tech (i.e. agriculture leads to the minor tech of farming tools, which increases farm building time, etc.)--> (researched alongside another major tech, so there will be two research bars)
4.) Cities, when making barracks, factories, etc. have the ability of making units and buildings at the same time
• Units take food, buildings take tools
o Fighting units take only 75% food, settlers 100%, buildings 0%
o Ships count as buildings- advantage for navies
o Granaries, markets etc. reduce this amount over time- lowest is 25% for warriors, 75% for Settlers/workers
5.) Trade on the coast shown with trade route diagrams
o Trade routes must be protected by ships (-trade ships- a new ship, automatically patrols trade lines)
• Marauding pirates will attack unprotected lines
• Trade on continent shown by different colored dirt paths
o Real roads can improve speed- must be protected (-trade troops-, automatically patrol lines)
6.) Standing Armies tech
• No longer have to have armies in every city? when war begins, armies (of size available and of your choice) will be procured and sent to a certain spot? no upgrades without barracks in cities chosen, even then only a percentage of units will have such upgrades (encourages production of specialized units to support these masse recruited troops)
Can produce generals in barracks- not a Great General, only used to organize troops and, every five turns, to give a boost to either speed, attack or defense for that turn only

7.) Ancient world
• Barbarian states, in the beginning, are not all hostile
• Some can be absorbed if nation is strong enough or cultural enough
o Religion can drive this as well
• Others will war with nations- must defeat them to take them
o Usually settled in resourceful locations
8.) Introduction of more liberal civics through science or trade (though not implementation) can lead to uncontrolled revolt
• The overall science of a country leads to a desire for more liberal civics
• More libraries etc., smarter population (a stat), more revolutions
o Class system based on innate wealth of cities can also cause revolutions, though these are more violent and usually retroactive
o Cannot change civics without these revolutions
• Revolutions which change autocracy will force decisions of war, etc. to be decided by committee (AI) (i.e. representation, democracy etc.)
9.) Great Royalty method
• Depending on the population of your kingdom and your approval rating (as well as health conditions in the capital, royalty will be born which reflects both your period and age- you can use these to boost your approval in other cities, expand your palace (more culture) build royal estates in other cities (reduce corruption and raise happiness, but cost GPT), or marry them off to other nations to boost friendship
o Royal people can be killed or a royal creation bar wiped out if revolutions occur in the capital city

What do you guys think? I have very litttle (Strike that, no experience) in python, xml, C++ etc. so my expertise along those lines will be scant. However, I will gladly supply research, debug testing, balancing issues etc. if anyone is interested in pursuing these ideas. Anyways, thanks for reading and post your comments. Maybe someone out there has stumbled upon these same issues and has even better ideas!

[Gaius Octavius]

This sounds like an extremely interesting and ambitious project. If and when it is completed, it would definitely take civilization to the next level. A few comments:

Originally Posted by ArjunaEle

1.) Transmission of civics by trade, immigration as well as science
2.) Transmission of technology by universities- students, teachers, immigration
3.) Technology a global movement- radiates from discovery point- discoverers can explore detailed techs (will elaborate below, this one's trickier)
• All nations receive tech after two or three turns after discovered by any nation- first nation has an advantage of exploring a minor tech associated with the discovered tech (i.e. agriculture leads to the minor tech of farming tools, which increases farm building time, etc.)--> (researched alongside another major tech, so there will be two research bars)

Excellent ideas that accurately represent the historical dispersion of new technology. There are a few mods which implement some of these features, such as immigration, which you might be able to merge to help make this. I do take exception to ALL nations receiving new techs, however. (Maybe you did not mean that in the absolute sense.) Instead, maybe something such as bordering civilizations to the discoverer have a chance to inherit the tech each turn, which could be modified by open borders. In the late ages, this could be any civ (globalization). Then each civ bordering that one has a chance to get the tech, and so on. This opens up great possibilities with different civics combinations like free speech, and later on a big modifier with the coming of the Internet.

Originally Posted by ArjunaEle

4.) Cities, when making barracks, factories, etc. have the ability of making units and buildings at the same time

This is something I have always wanted to see--multiple build queues. It would greatly increase flexibility, and is also more realistic.

Originally Posted by ArjunaEle

5.) Trade on the coast shown with trade route diagrams
o Trade routes must be protected by ships (-trade ships- a new ship, automatically patrols trade lines)
• Marauding pirates will attack unprotected lines
• Trade on continent shown by different colored dirt paths
o Real roads can improve speed- must be protected (-trade troops-, automatically patrol lines)

Interesting, but sounds hard to implement. Instead of sea trade routes, maybe you could simply make it so that when an enemy ship approaches a city (i.e. is in the city radius) it automatically stops all trade in and out of the city. This might be easier to do.

Originally Posted by ArjunaEle

7.) Ancient world
• Barbarian states, in the beginning, are not all hostile
• Some can be absorbed if nation is strong enough or cultural enough
o Religion can drive this as well
• Others will war with nations- must defeat them to take them
o Usually settled in resourceful locations
8.) Introduction of more liberal civics through science or trade (though not implementation) can lead to uncontrolled revolt
• The overall science of a country leads to a desire for more liberal civics
• More libraries etc., smarter population (a stat), more revolutions
o Class system based on innate wealth of cities can also cause revolutions, though these are more violent and usually retroactive
o Cannot change civics without these revolutions
• Revolutions which change autocracy will force decisions of war, etc. to be decided by committee (AI) (i.e. representation, democracy etc.)

Love the idea about the barbarians--you might consider a barbarian/minor nation distinction to facilitate this.
I would also say that you should extend the revolution system beyond just the ancient age as it's an important part that's been missing from the game. (There is a revolution mod also that could help you implement it.)

On the last point, I absolutely agree. I like the idea of no longer having complete autonomy, but being forced to respond to the changes in the game that arise from your governing decisions. Bring back the Senate from Civ 2!

I am all for historical realism and it seems like your ideas so far have managed to capture that without compromising gameplay. I would very much like to see this mod made into a reality.

[ArjunaEle]

Thanks for the reply. I like your ideas for the technological innovation change (bordering nations in the beginning, increasing chances as you innovate etc.) because this would encourage backwards nations (i.e. those who fight a little too much at the beginning and cut down thier science budget) would be able to bounce back to the front quicker by researching a few communication techs and opening up borders/trade lines to other nations. Would be more realistic this way, especially at the beginning of the game when, for example, you have to wait 10 turns to research agriculture while you can see your neighbors farms three blocks away! Hmm...Wonder what those big fields are called?
The trade system would be difficult to manage, I admit, though I think it would add distinct advantages to opening borders early on, and add a graphical interface to the lifeless commerce of cities. The other nations feel so isolated (unless you are marching an army towards thier capitol) that any sort of action or movement between them would be nice. Perhaps even implement a real production system (instead of hammers, make cities with lots of farms produce actual foodstuffs, not just bread pieces, or cities with iron mines exporting armor, etc.) so you can trade numbers of food, armor, etc. Kind of like an enlarged version of Caesar III (anyone remember that?)
Also, what did you think about the Great Royalty person? Personally its my favorite of the additions. Hopefully someone will help me pick this up and make at least one or two of these ideas into a reality. I can only hope.

Edit: Upon reading this, I thought of one more idea: How about, if there are Barbarian states still around during the medieval period, you can make them a feudal state (not a vassal state, those are pointless and weak). Perhaps follow the progress of City-State/Nation-State development of real history?
I don't know of many places (outside of the middle east) which began civilization in prehistory with three cities and a king...perhaps start out as tribal and advance into a city, then have settlers as a tech? Idk, worth a shot. Would make the barbarian states much more lucrative in the beginning, especially if you can only have one city until the middle ages. Would also allow for strategic planning of land and a more balanced land grab, as well as some fun ancient/classical age wars! Would blend history with strategy very well, and encourage making allies early and often even more.

[TRN2]

I've sub-scribed to this thread - I really can't comment on how much time I will have - seem C++ and Python is high demand around here even for people who are only just starting it(like me) - I'll wait,watch and see, maybe later I can help, maybe....

[chef pablo]

what about a seperation of techs,research is based on what type of persons you have hired in your city,ie;priest would research religion,generals research millitery,merchants research finance,statesmen research civics so on.