SGOTM 12 - Ivan

[I. Larkin]

We discussed a lot: Declare to Egypt at preturn! Sure, Xeroks will not go if we are at peace with Egypt! You should declare first to Egypt and then bring Persia to MA. It is sort of multi-task, but check if we can get Astro 1 turn earlier.

Check Science sliders, make some changes here:
Bombay Beaker to Tax (astronomy in 7, saving an extra 2GPT)

With some EXTRA sci we could do it. Please read our discussion with nerovats.

[glenmetz]

OK, I will declare this turn when I get home tonight. We are 2 turns away from being able to attack Egypt so I will hit them up now.

I'll check the Science again, but none of the cities have grown yet (one will IBT) where we'd have another beaker as an option. Astronomy was in 7 when I switched that beaker to a taxer. I just did it to save the gold. I may be able to get it down a turn if I take some of the citizens off of tiles and change them to beakers. I'll see what I can do tonight.

[I. Larkin]

Originally Posted by glenmetz

1) OK, I will declare this turn when I get home tonight. We are 2 turns away from being able to attack Egypt so I will hit them up now.

2) I'll check the Science again, but none of the cities have grown yet (one will IBT) where we'd have another beaker as an option. Astronomy was in 7 when I switched that beaker to a taxer. I just did it to save the gold. I may be able to get it down a turn if I take some of the citizens off of tiles and change them to beakers. I'll see what I can do tonight.

1) Ok, and make MA with Xerks as well. The faster we finish Egypt the faster we build University and Newnon there.
2) Astronomy is so benefitial that we may try to make 0% lux (100% Sci) and strave some people to get it 1 turn earlier.
I think you may see what to trade to get all LUX. (Do not trade our LUX).
The discussion "where to go next" will continue to after your turn-set.
If you make a break you may put save at our thread to discuss.

[nerovats]

I think we needed just 20 extra commerce to get it down to 6, so keep max on science and scientists. If necceasry do as Ivan suggested, get some scientists even if it will cost a pop somewhere, but I doubt that will be neccesary.

If Thebes only has some spear and we wait 2 turns for all attackers to have moved towards Persia we can bring the elites as we won't face (a lot of) attacks on landing. In 2 more turns they might have 6 spears, should last just 1 turn. Make sure to keep it whatever the cost, but try to do that without fortifying lost of units in it as Egyptwill have lot of culture and thus high flip risk.

[I. Larkin]

Embassy picture may be very misleading. At my turns Teno had only 2 spears, but when I unloab nearby I face a lot more. That why I said it is "optional". Anyway with Persia we drive Egypt away soon.

[nerovats]

I think pictures are correct but the AI can move in more defenders and will when declared upon. But there should be less then 10 now as lot of them will move towards immediate threath.

[AutomatedTeller]

I have to say, bringing Xerxes is in will cause the AI to move units there. If you bring Xerxes in and wait a turn before landing, all his troops will be engaged with the persians. They will likely end up moving units *out* of the capitol. the big worry is that they will start pop-rushing spears and taking 2 pop at a time - do they have warchariots?

[glenmetz]

I'm going to declare this turn, sign Xerxes in.
Land the following turn.
Attack the turn after. Is this cool, or should I go another route. I'm open for discussion. I'd like to get this in this evening if at all possible. The earlier the better.

[AutomatedTeller]

That's fine with me

[glenmetz]

OK, here goes

130BC (4) Continued
Lux to 0, Science to 100, grab about 4 beakers and get Astro down to 3-9gpt
Declare on Egypt, Sign the Persians in for Republic and 70 Gold

IBT
Lisbon Library->University
Greeks are building The Hanging Gardens

110BC (5)
Buy 3 beakers back, Astro still in 2-4gpt
Ready to unload the landing force

IBT
Dromon sinks a Persian Galley (1-0)
Persians are building The Hanging Gardens

90BC (6)
Landing force unloaded
Astro in 1-6gpt

IBT
Astro in, Tech to Gunpowder (no one has it yet, the only tech I could trade for is Monarchy)
Tenochtitlan University->Market (this can be changed)
SoZ pumps out an AC
Vikings are building The Hanging Gardens

70BC (7)
The Battle for Thebes:
Vet LB kills Spear (2-0)
Vet LB kills Spear (3-0)
Elite MDI kills Spear (4-0)
Elite MDI kills Archer (5-0) and quickly Thebes falls:

It comes with Barracks, Granary, Duct and Harbor at size 10. They get to work on a Library for now.
Constantinople->Switch build to Copernicus'
Science is at 90, Lux at 10, MM'd all cities back for growth. All specialists set to Beakers (except for 3). Gunpowder in 11-10gpt

IBT
The resistance in Thebes ends and they riot

50BC (8)
Elite AC kills a Spear (6-0)
Units healing for attack (and hopefully leader farming) of Memphis

IBT
Teotihuacan Library->University
Oporto Library->Duct It will need a duct to grow past 6, the other option is to whip improvements here
French complete The Hanging Gardens in Orleans
Suddenly, we have a BIGGGGGGGGGGGG problem

The only units we have in the area are 1 AC in Lisbon, Oporto, and Delhi. I can whip an MDI in Lisbon and Bombay, and build one also in Delhi (at the cost of 34 wasted shields in a Uni build). I can't whip in Oporto as there aren't enough shields in the box. Best case scenario for getting more troops there is 6-8 turns from Thebes. I wanted to stop again and get everyones thoughts on this.

Trade options at the moment:
Persia Theology for 51+24GPT (pretty much a no brainer, they most be in thier GA now making all of that extra gold)
Babylon Theo for Monarcy, 46+8 GPT (again, a no brainer)
Chinese-Gems and 20g for Furs
Arabia and Greece-Gems and 30g for Furs
Scandinavia-Gems and 5g for Silks
Iroquios-The Republic for Furs
France-Theo for Wool, 19+2gpt

And this is now turning into the...........................


LONGEST...TURNSET...EVER

[AutomatedTeller]

what about whipping a caravel in delhi and grabbing whatever garrison units we have in constantinople? Or declaring on korea and bringing in inca? We are assuming that korea is coming for us, no? Is it possible they are just after inca?

We could declare on inca and bring in maya and korea, as well. We could pop out a caravel in aztec land and chain units from egypt over, as well.

[I. Larkin]

Sign the Persians in for Republic and 70 Gold

Our gold?? Could you do it for Ivory or at least gpt?

The Battle for Thebes:
Vet LB kills Spear (2-0)
Vet LB kills Spear (3-0)
Elite MDI kills Spear (4-0)
Elite MDI kills Archer (5-0) and quickly Thebes falls:

1) Why did not bombard first? 2) How you insert picture in the text?

Astro in, Tech to Gunpowder (no one has it yet, the only tech I could trade for is Monarchy)
Tenochtitlan University->Market (this can be changed)
SoZ pumps out an AC; Science is at 90, Lux at 10, MM'd all cities back for growth. All specialists set to Beakers (except for 3). Gunpowder in 11-10gpt

Trade opportunities appear NOW. We could trade and have more happy people.
Teno may build Pickman to upgrade when GP in.

LONGEST...TURNSET...EVER

You may stop turn before.

[I. Larkin]

Originally Posted by AutomatedTeller

what about whipping a caravel in delhi and grabbing whatever garrison units we have in constantinople? Or declaring on korea and bringing in inca? We are assuming that korea is coming for us, no? Is it possible they are just after inca?

We could declare on inca and bring in maya and korea, as well. We could pop out a caravel in aztec land and chain units from egypt over, as well.

Don't panic! Move AC to Ins. Hill near stack, fortify and see where they go. They may go to Barbarians. Or we set "no barbarians"?

[I. Larkin]

Chinese-Gems and 20g for Furs
Arabia and Greece-Gems and 30g for Furs
Scandinavia-Gems and 5g for Silks
Iroquios-The Republic for Furs
France-Theo for Wool, 19+2gpt

Do not trade gem and other Ivory. If Thebes flip or trade route will broke our reputation will gone. We may trade Theology around for all we need. Also, we may bring Iro in MA with China. I still think that war with China is the best opportunity. However I thought the same about India...
Where is the SAV? Are you going to continue?

[AutomatedTeller]

barbs are at roaming.

That's a pretty big stack for barbarians, though. Are we strong, average or weak compared to Korea?

[nerovats]

It's the stack Korea formed in our MA with them against Portugal. It is probably just wandering about orafter barbs as suggested.

To see what korea will do, is leave city closest to them open and see if they go there, if they do, declare on the civ south of Korea and sign MA with Korea. We can't war against Korea now, they'll take most of our cities before we can get units over. The only direct route for the civ south of Korea to us is trough Korea so will will just face couple of landings, no problem with that.

Try to keep as few units in Thebes as possible. If our forces are still stong we could go for other Egypt city as will, the sooner that falls the sooner we eliminate flip risk.

[glenmetz]

I will play a couple more turns tonight to see whats going on with Korea. Perhaps they are just hunting about for barbs.

I will not trade the Gems, good call Ivan. I will trade Theo for every possible lux I can get. I think 2 Luxs should be enough for a size 12 city with no temple or market to have all 12 citizens either working or beakers/taxmen.

I do think I can take Memphis from Egypt. It might take 3-4 turns because of the walking into thier territory thats necessary.

FYI for Ivan and all of your questions for me earlier
-I did bombard Thebes with the Dromons before attacking. Probably why I was able to take the city out with 4 men.
-The trade to get Xerxes in was Republic and our gold. We were in the hole GPT so that wasn't an option, and we had about 300 at the time. Republic was already known by about 10 civs and totally a useless tech. I thought this was a fine deal for us
-Insert the picture after you upload it to the upload center

Let me know of anything else as well. I'll probably try and pop this out around 6-7EST this evening. I have 2 turns left, any objected to me trying to finish of Egypt (it may be 3 or 4 turns).

[AutomatedTeller]

I have no problem trading republic around, since it is a completely useless tech to everyone - since no one can change government anyway

good call on the korea stack - if that's been hanging around for awhile, then it's probably not a big problem for us. Good idea for the trap for them, too.

Here's a question - do we want to upgrade any dromons to caravels? we gain speed and carrying capacity, but lose bombardment.

Would it make sense to ship the units over to memphis? drop them on a mountain? I worry that xerxes will take it if we don't get over there fast. I don't think there is much of a chance of egypt taking thebes back any time soon - not up against the # of units the persians are sending after them.

[I. Larkin]

-The trade to get Xerxes in was Republic and our gold. We were in the hole GPT so that wasn't an option, and we had about 300 at the time. Republic was already known by about 10 civs and totally a useless tech. I thought this was a fine deal for us

To make gpt you may ajust slider for positive gpt, make gpt deal and set slider back.
Sorry, I forgot that we had not Astronomy yet, and could not trade Ivory to Persia. But we could trade Teology to Persia, nothing wrong with it. In our plan is to trade Education as wider as possible, to get Banking from AI. Sure we want some money for that. Note, that we NEED money to upgrade. Build Pickman after Unis we will upgrade them and Disband. Then Horses.
So use all possible trades that bring us resonable money and LUX. Do not affraid to distribute Tech, but do not do it for free.
Trade ALL lux, Put SCi at 100%, the sooner we research the better. Kyoto may work 12 only if all lux ours. It is good "worker factory" because of Granary. Leave 2-3 MI or LB near Thebes to retake it if flip. Put wounded in to reduse flip probability. As I said, Persia should take Memphis.

picture after you upload it to the upload center

Not quiet understand it. How to put it to "upload center"?

[I. Larkin]

Originally Posted by AutomatedTeller

1) I have no problem trading republic around, since it is a completely useless tech to everyone - since no one can change government anyway

2) good call on the korea stack - if that's been hanging around for awhile, then it's probably not a big problem for us. Good idea for the trap for them, too.

3) Here's a question - do we want to upgrade any dromons to caravels? we gain speed and carrying capacity, but lose bombardment.

4) Would it make sense to ship the units over to memphis? drop them on a mountain? I worry that xerxes will take it if we don't get over there fast. I don't think there is much of a chance of egypt taking thebes back any time soon - not up against the # of units the persians are sending after them.

1) Well if 10-20 coins it is OK. Fur - moreover OK
2) How we can call? As I suggest put AC from Lisbon on Incesnse Hill. And see. My filling that if they for us they rather directed to Bombay.
3)"Even don't think about that!". Sure, we will not upgrade Dormons until Magnetism for sure. Capital will build some Caravels after Copernicus. (MM for 20 spt)
4) I'd rather send 1 ship to India Sea. I cant' see without save, but have units in and near Thebes is more important.

What I want is to discuss a general game layout and "long term future plans". Will we try to research all IA techs ourself or will invest some efforts to make some AI stronger that they help us with the research? If yes, then how?