SGOTM 04 - Chokonuts

[AlanH]

Welcome to your C_IV Warlords SGOTM 4 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game
This Monarch difficulty game is on a Standard size, Gyathaar-special, fractal map, at Epic speed, against 7 rivals including India. All victory conditions are enabled except Diplomatic, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the fastest Space defeat by Gandhi.

Versions
This game will be played in Warlords Version 2.08 only.

It will be played using the current version of the HoF Mod. This is version 2.08.003 for Windows. There are insufficient Mac players to form a Mac team. so it will be played in Windows only.

If later versions of Warlords or the HoF Mod are released they cannot be used for this game.

Your start file will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of February 23.

Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.



Map Parameters
Playable Leader/Civ - Ragnar of The Vikings
Rivals - 7 civs including Gandhi (who is locked in war with Ragnar)
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Fractal, cylindrical, medium sea level, temperate
Game Speed - Epic
Diplomatic Victory Disabled
All other settings are defaults

Notes

1. Please visit the C-IV Warlords SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
   
2. Warlords v.2.08 is supported for this SGOTM. No other versions can be used, and you will have to stick with the same version throughout the game.
   
3. Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.
   
4. Awards will be given to teams who achieve Space defeats to India in the least turns.
   
5. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Please enjoy the game

[Ozbenno]

Checking in.

Welcome to our two new members cubbiesin08 and Mighty Dwaarf

Anyone got any ideas how we're going to do this?

We will need to cripple/vassalise all other AIs while just playing defensive against Gandhi. Hopefully he isn't right next door.

We could also conquer Gandhi's neighbours and then let Gandhi retake the cities by leaving them undefended once the neighbour is gone/vassalised.

Actually vassals might be a bad idea as we don't want Gandhi to be crippled by other AI.

Will need to build a warrior first, just in case Gandhi pops up straight away, then maybe workboat --> worker? We'll need to get a trireme up on the clams once we have Sailing.

Research wise, Bronze Working, Animal Husbandry, Sailing and Archery seems goodies.

I'm away for the next couple of days so won't be able to grab this, ngraner is up in SGOTM3 so anyone else should grab the save once it is available and ge this thing going.

[cubbiesin08]

Checking in - Hello everyone

In Alan's description he said that we met and are a neighbor of Gandhi - so we are probably too close to him. We should probably conquer away from Gandhi, so we can then abandon our cities to let him have them.

We should also let Gandhi "capture" a bunch of workers.

I'm assuming we'll just settle in place? I can't see why we wouldn't.

I like the idea of warrior->workboat, but after that we may need to see how close Gandhi is to decide if worker or 2nd warrior.

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Hi everyone

Checking in.

I agree we should settle in place, plains hill, coast, hills, grassland, 3 food resources = nice.
I think initial builds should be warrior (just in case) and wrkboat to bag those clams, (which way round depends on how brave we feel), then it depends on tech and mil situation, if needed we cant ignore the need for military early on, if not should look at expansion i.e wrker (if techs make it wrthwhile) /settler.
Tech wise we should try to bag BW asap for copper, tree chopping and whipping puposes, archery may be needed earlier than usual too. Religionwise, I think we should look to found at least one or two, most likely conf or christ to aid happiness and gold. I assume we will look to build Oracle, I think CS may be too far away to grab this way, so prob aim to bag COL or MC with it. After that much depends on what we find, I have sneaking suspiscion we will initially be stuck on continent with just India which means we will have to dig in until Astronomy if not we could use other civ as middleman to feed India tech.
Once we are set there should not be too much trouble, although the strangeness of the goal may mean we need to be a little more creative in our play than normal.
I will probs be busy for next few days so a position in middle to end of roster would suit me best.

[Ozbenno]

Not sure that Oracle is a good option. It ties up production of a city for too long with no marble and non-industrious. We probably should be heading towards the military techs, BW, IW, Construction rather than the early religious ones. If we want to go for an early wonder I would prefer Great Lighthouse.

Much will depend on the early landscape.

The first round we might go 20, 20, 20, 15, 15, 15 turns and then 10 each from there?? I'd also say when Gandhi is found whoever is playing should post a position to get some thoughts as the proximity is going to determine a lot of what we do.

@cubbiesin08 and Mighty Dwaarf - In the three previous SGOTMs, we haven't determined a roster before we start, just use the order in which people are able to pick up the save first go round (ie first in best dressed).

If no-one else gets in before me, I'll start off tomorrow.

[Mighty Dwaarf]

I Can't see how the Glighthouse is better option than Oracle.
As suggested earlier I have feeling our trade partners will be limited, if any, until Astronomy which kind of nullifies any extra trade routes the GL will give us. Plus, the Glighthouse costs 25% more shields than Oracle!! The Oracle will give us either free religion and early courthouses or early forges and Colossus both of which will give boost to economy irrelative as to how unknowns turn out.
With a few forest chops and gentle persuasion of the whip I do not see it tying up production for too long. Of course though, all this comes second to establishing early defense against any early Indian probings. I think after BW and archery we should have the ability (pending access to copper) to produce advanced enough troops to deal with anything Gandhi has. Therefor then we could persue Oracle via myst, med and priesthood which are all relatively cheap techs.

I agree with the idea of taking pause for thought when we discover Gandhi's whereabouts. As regards team rules, etiquette etc I am easy to follow your current ways, just let me know.

[ngraner42]

I agree with Oz's approach. The Oracle is not worth pursuing since we have no advantages and can probably skip the entire middle section of the tree for a long time. Bronze working then Animal Husbandry makes sense to get production up and locate Bronze.

If it is just us and Gandhi in this continent, I think a good plan is to get off the continent as quickly as possible and get out of Gandhi's way. Any wonders we build will then be form him. We will need to wait and see what the start looks like.

[Ozbenno]

Good point about moving off shore if we're neighbours with Gandhi.

@Mighty Dwaarf - I actually would prefer not pursuing an early wonder at all, was just saying that GL is on our necessary research path. It is actually a very powerful wonder, dependant on the map, which we still don't know about. It also need our UB, which we will be building. Oracle is on a section of the research path we can safely ignore.

[cubbiesin08]

Since I've got some free time, I'll kick it off


- I've got it and will stop and soon as I find Gandhi

[cubbiesin08]

I played the first 20 turns and did not meet Gandhi.

T0:
Settled in place
Mining(12)
Warrior(11)

T11:
Met Genghis Khan's scout
Warrior -> Workboat

T12:
Mining -> Bronze Working

T13:
Buddhism FIADL

T19:
Lion decides he's hungry and kills our scout for lunch

We will have BW in 14 and workboat in 6

Here's a screenshot of what we can see so far.

[ngraner42]

We have a new warrior out scouting, a worker due in 1 and AH due in 3. There is a perfect city site to the west where we can work 3 gold mines and still grow. We have copper to the north just outside the fat cross, so metal will not be a problem. I would suggest pop rushing the Settler as soon as possible so we can get the huge increase to our tech rate going. Writing may be best next; there is no need for Archery, Axemen will defend us.

T3. Workboat complete, started warrior to grow to size 3.
T8. Warrior complete grown to size 3, started worker.
T11. BW complete, begin AH.

[Mighty Dwaarf]

GOOOOOLLLDDD.

I think we found our second city site. . I suggest we use the plains south of the river north of gold. This way we can use pigs and fish to counter shortfall in food to work gold.

BTW,
Cubbies, where did you meet Genghis scout? I would assume that Gandhi would be found in opposite direction.

I suggest next builds be wrkr, settler, with warr or two mixed in there if needed,
If we are not looking to Oracle, I would suggest AH next to get pigs online.
This should take us nicely through next turnset, where we should hopefully have more of an idea where Mr Gandhi is located.

[ngraner42]

We will need Mysticism to expand the borders of the second city. Combine that with a fast tech rate and possibly using the Oracle for Metal Casting is not a bad idea.

[Ozbenno]

That's a killer second city site!

I'd go Writing next as well, get some Libraries up and running, or maybe Sailing to get a galley out (or build a second workboat).

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Ngraner good to see you coming round to the power of the Oracle. I think at this moment we need to decide whether to attampt to pursue this or not, and if so we need to start now or it will be too late.
If not I think Granaries will benefit us more than Libraries at this stage so I would aim at them first.
I promise this is the last time I'll mention the Oracle as I must be getting annoying by now.

[Ozbenno]

Originally Posted by Mighty Dwaarf

I promise this is the last time I'll mention the Oracle as I must be getting annoying by now.

All points of view are very welcome.

I think libraries would be good as we could work the fish in the 2nd city, whip the library to increase the tech from the gold mines and get a border pop, while we're at it (I hate using monuments for border pops, waste of hammers).

If we decide to go Oracle for MC, then you're right we need to start redirecting research this way now. Is it worth attempting Feudalism instead??

[Ozbenno]

I've got the save but will hold of playing until we get a consensus on Oracle from the others as we need to head down this path next turn-set if we're going for it.

[ngraner42]

Even if we decide to go for the Oracle, getting Writing for the Library is a good idea. I would just go ahead in that direction first.

[Terminator3k]

Greetings all and welcome to Cubbiesin08 and Mighty Dwaarf. I'm checking in and will try to get caught up in the next 24 hours. From what I've read so far, this sounds like a fun one!

[cubbiesin08]

I met Genghis' scout SW of the city.

As for the Oracle push, I'm indifferent to it or not. The only bad part about us potentially getting it is declining Gandhi of getting it. He is one of the few civs that has a chance to beat us to it and I would rather have him get it than us.
I would lean towards not getting it or the religious techs and push military to take out Genghis, but I won't care either way.