Passive agressive Vassal domination
- Thread starter Mutineer
- Start date
shyuhe
Deity
ok. Will play tonight then.
shyuhe
Deity
sorry for the slight delay...
I got some luck and Khan razed a city for us so I plant a settler in its place instead. However, Huayna isn't willing to capitulate to us - I think we need to somehow magically kill troops without attacking his cities... I killed the few units that were wandering around in his territory. If we let Khan loose, he may finish Huayna off on his own too... or Huayna may vassalize himself to Cyrus/Louis/Mehmed also. The latter isn't a very bad option for us as long as our borders are secure.
Our economy is in tatters right now - the new cities are really killing the economy. I've started to plant a few cottages here and there and started forums to stop the bleeding. I also traded maps with Hatty for 160 gold. But we're still pretty far in the red right now...
However, we may want to swap back to military:
I got some luck and Khan razed a city for us so I plant a settler in its place instead. However, Huayna isn't willing to capitulate to us - I think we need to somehow magically kill troops without attacking his cities... I killed the few units that were wandering around in his territory. If we let Khan loose, he may finish Huayna off on his own too... or Huayna may vassalize himself to Cyrus/Louis/Mehmed also. The latter isn't a very bad option for us as long as our borders are secure.
Our economy is in tatters right now - the new cities are really killing the economy. I've started to plant a few cottages here and there and started forums to stop the bleeding. I also traded maps with Hatty for 160 gold. But we're still pretty far in the red right now...
However, we may want to swap back to military:
negyvenketto
Scientist
I could play this evening (11-14h from now) if Tatran doesn't mind a swap.
negyvenketto
Scientist
Got it. Playing now.
negyvenketto
Scientist
Built troops, hired some merchants where Forum was built to balance budget.
Started a Confucian Missionary for the +1gpt maybe we can produce more as the military upkeep starts to be a pain.
HC still not ready to be our vassal.
Louis cancelled Open borders.
We have horses and rice
Mehmed has a dream
The save
Started a Confucian Missionary for the +1gpt maybe we can produce more as the military upkeep starts to be a pain.
HC still not ready to be our vassal.
Louis cancelled Open borders.
We have horses and rice
Mehmed has a dream
Spoiler :
The save
slowcar
King
i'll take the game after mutineer on the normal roster, then.
looks like we will try to struggle our enemies by culture while trying to let our vassals take them over by military means, right?
gifting ghengis a stack of cavs should do some good
looks like we will try to struggle our enemies by culture while trying to let our vassals take them over by military means, right?
gifting ghengis a stack of cavs should do some good
Pre-turn
Research : Liberalism -> Machinery
IBT 1298 AD
Research -> Liberalism
No one has Guilds and only Cyrus has Engineering.
1304 AD (5)
Cyrus and Louis have Optics.
1310 AD (6)
1334 AD (10)
Plato has been born in Antium.
1352 AD (13)
Liberalism is known, free tech Nationalism. Maybe we can trade Philosophy
for Engineering and Guilds after a little investment in both techs.
Civics -> Free Religion + Free Speech
Research : Liberalism -> Machinery
IBT 1298 AD
Research -> Liberalism
No one has Guilds and only Cyrus has Engineering.
1304 AD (5)
Cyrus and Louis have Optics.
1310 AD (6)
1334 AD (10)
Plato has been born in Antium.
1352 AD (13)
Liberalism is known, free tech Nationalism. Maybe we can trade Philosophy
for Engineering and Guilds after a little investment in both techs.
Civics -> Free Religion + Free Speech
a few thinks I want to say:
I cultivated relationships by accepting cyrus religion and getting him and others not to hate as and been our worst enemies.
We are worst enemies of as minimum 5 civs, and Cyrus complain we rejected to acccept his religion (Thin I did, stpend turn of revolt to get + for that).
I do not undestand that policy, why make everyone hate as and remove any opportunities for trade. We suppous to work together and continue each other strategies, not work agains each other.
I Suspect this is the reason for Capac refusing to surrender with the reason I never saw. His reason now:" You must be Joking!"
I have no idea what it mean. It could be mean: Every one in the world hated you, or he think he is too week. I do not know.
Second:
I noticed a lot of ties I remember farming replaced with cottagess, WHY???
Cities need to grow, we are near 50% slider, even after I build 3 more cities. Why we need cottages at expence of city grow? There sooo mach for workers to do, so many unimproved ties. Ties alone the rivers allmost allways better to be farmed, not cottaged. Please, stop changing allready builded improvements befor city rich size 20.
If city is below size that he can work all ties it's can it is not grow enogth yet!
Mostly was growing cities bombarding thnks.
Capac might loose his capital next turn.
I think we finsihed using Khan to raise everything in Capac land and resettle.
I did gift Khan bunch of tech to bring him up to Maceman and gift him some units.
We can trade Guild for Education, but I did not.
Education and Nationalism are our monopoly tech, I see no reason to give up this monopoly yet. We researching GunPowder and probably next go Mil Tradition.
Drafting bunch of Muskets nad gifting KHan our Praets look like a good plan to me.
WE ned more settlers, we should Not pressure Khan to mach, as he only 80% of original land due to our cultural pressure. We do not want him to go free because he become to small.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Mutineer_Passive-Agressive_II_AD-1460.CivWarlordsSave
I cultivated relationships by accepting cyrus religion and getting him and others not to hate as and been our worst enemies.
We are worst enemies of as minimum 5 civs, and Cyrus complain we rejected to acccept his religion (Thin I did, stpend turn of revolt to get + for that).
I do not undestand that policy, why make everyone hate as and remove any opportunities for trade. We suppous to work together and continue each other strategies, not work agains each other.
I Suspect this is the reason for Capac refusing to surrender with the reason I never saw. His reason now:" You must be Joking!"
I have no idea what it mean. It could be mean: Every one in the world hated you, or he think he is too week. I do not know.
Second:
I noticed a lot of ties I remember farming replaced with cottagess, WHY???
Cities need to grow, we are near 50% slider, even after I build 3 more cities. Why we need cottages at expence of city grow? There sooo mach for workers to do, so many unimproved ties. Ties alone the rivers allmost allways better to be farmed, not cottaged. Please, stop changing allready builded improvements befor city rich size 20.
If city is below size that he can work all ties it's can it is not grow enogth yet!
Mostly was growing cities bombarding thnks.
Capac might loose his capital next turn.
I think we finsihed using Khan to raise everything in Capac land and resettle.
I did gift Khan bunch of tech to bring him up to Maceman and gift him some units.
We can trade Guild for Education, but I did not.
Education and Nationalism are our monopoly tech, I see no reason to give up this monopoly yet. We researching GunPowder and probably next go Mil Tradition.
Drafting bunch of Muskets nad gifting KHan our Praets look like a good plan to me.
WE ned more settlers, we should Not pressure Khan to mach, as he only 80% of original land due to our cultural pressure. We do not want him to go free because he become to small.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Mutineer_Passive-Agressive_II_AD-1460.CivWarlordsSave
@Mutineer
I think you are overreacting. Civ4 has so many details you can't expect
everyone to play the same. Btw, you should have stated your complaints
earlier, because it didn't happened during my turns.
Also, Cyrus and Mehmed are lousy traders, Hatshepsut is much better,
she even will declare war on anyone.
The "surely you must be joking" comment maybe indicates Huayna will
vassalize to one of his friends (Louis, Mehmed or Cyrus) instead capitulate
to us. I don't see a problem, we need a new target soon.
I think you are overreacting. Civ4 has so many details you can't expect
everyone to play the same. Btw, you should have stated your complaints
earlier, because it didn't happened during my turns.
Also, Cyrus and Mehmed are lousy traders, Hatshepsut is much better,
she even will declare war on anyone.
The "surely you must be joking" comment maybe indicates Huayna will
vassalize to one of his friends (Louis, Mehmed or Cyrus) instead capitulate
to us. I don't see a problem, we need a new target soon.
negyvenketto
Scientist
I have never heard this reason before. He can free himself if
- we are too small (50% of our original size)
- he is too big (50% of our size or our pop)
But he is too small
No, you do not undestand.
He can free himself if
1) He become bigger then 50% of our size.
2) He loss 50% land/population from what he had the moment he surrender to as. (He vassal to as to become pretected, we can not protect him)
Not we got 50% of original size.
He can free himself if
1) He become bigger then 50% of our size.
2) He loss 50% land/population from what he had the moment he surrender to as. (He vassal to as to become pretected, we can not protect him)
Not we got 50% of original size.
shyuhe
Deity
woa... Khan is pleased with us now? He hated our guts when I last had the set
@Mutineer
I cottaged a few tiles here and there (don't know what happened after that) as our economy was really down in the tubes. Yes we do need the pop, but we can't tank our economy at the same time. I don't know if we can afford to shift that much into an SE given the non-spiritual non-philosophical part of Caesar (unless you want to gamble in getting a GM). However, I do agree too many cottages at this point = bad, they'll take too long to grow without emancipation, and we'll lose the power to draft muskets/rifles (which should be coming up in another few more sets I imagine?)
As for relations, Hatty will still trade with us, and she has good tech (and a pretty high WFYABTA limit). Cyrus has pretty crappy land from what I recall, so I think our two main long-term threats are Louis and Mehmed. As long as they can't trade techs with Hatty, we should be fine.
Regarding Khan's land size - does he have any spare settlers that are wandering around? If so, we don't need to resettle all the spots that he razes as he'll backfill them himself.
@Mutineer
I cottaged a few tiles here and there (don't know what happened after that) as our economy was really down in the tubes. Yes we do need the pop, but we can't tank our economy at the same time. I don't know if we can afford to shift that much into an SE given the non-spiritual non-philosophical part of Caesar (unless you want to gamble in getting a GM). However, I do agree too many cottages at this point = bad, they'll take too long to grow without emancipation, and we'll lose the power to draft muskets/rifles (which should be coming up in another few more sets I imagine?)
As for relations, Hatty will still trade with us, and she has good tech (and a pretty high WFYABTA limit). Cyrus has pretty crappy land from what I recall, so I think our two main long-term threats are Louis and Mehmed. As long as they can't trade techs with Hatty, we should be fine.
Regarding Khan's land size - does he have any spare settlers that are wandering around? If so, we don't need to resettle all the spots that he razes as he'll backfill them himself.
About research:
You undestand we complitly controling this game? We play from the start in controlling way, stealing workers and keeping opponents down by pillaging and preventing inter AI trade.
If we think anyone becoming technological treat we could just declare and pillage him to death why trying to secure surrender.
We probably should let Khan to setttle something, I would still take best spots ourself, because it is does not matter mach if Khan settle poor spots, so long as he has a land.
Research wize, It could be a good idea to detour to Printing press after Gunpowder using 1 GS.
At the moment we have 2 GS sleeping. I probably would not go after Chemistry just yet, do not like to loose Pantheon.
I am not 100% sure what better.
Printing press (GS)-Chemistry (GS)- representation (For research).
Banking should be avalible for trade soon.
This is probably good strat. It is fast, give as ability to gift Khan our Promoted city rider2 Praet for him to upgrade them himself. It is fast because it use 2 GS and go strigth to Representation we need for faster research.
Alternative is:
Printing press (GS)- Milithary tradition-Representation
Keep Pantheon bonus, but take long time to get military tech and representation.
Who will be our next target? After Capac is dead, Cyrus?
Cyrus have scrappy land, but he is near Khan, so Khan will be efficient in taking him down. Othe choises are France and Muhmet.
France trade with as, I do not want to loose that yet.
Muhmed is to far away from Khan.
Hatty we still want as a friend.
When we decided to loose Education monopoly we can entice hatty to go figth someone.
You undestand we complitly controling this game? We play from the start in controlling way, stealing workers and keeping opponents down by pillaging and preventing inter AI trade.
If we think anyone becoming technological treat we could just declare and pillage him to death why trying to secure surrender.
We probably should let Khan to setttle something, I would still take best spots ourself, because it is does not matter mach if Khan settle poor spots, so long as he has a land.
Research wize, It could be a good idea to detour to Printing press after Gunpowder using 1 GS.
At the moment we have 2 GS sleeping. I probably would not go after Chemistry just yet, do not like to loose Pantheon.
I am not 100% sure what better.
Printing press (GS)-Chemistry (GS)- representation (For research).
Banking should be avalible for trade soon.
This is probably good strat. It is fast, give as ability to gift Khan our Promoted city rider2 Praet for him to upgrade them himself. It is fast because it use 2 GS and go strigth to Representation we need for faster research.
Alternative is:
Printing press (GS)- Milithary tradition-Representation
Keep Pantheon bonus, but take long time to get military tech and representation.
Who will be our next target? After Capac is dead, Cyrus?
Cyrus have scrappy land, but he is near Khan, so Khan will be efficient in taking him down. Othe choises are France and Muhmet.
France trade with as, I do not want to loose that yet.
Muhmed is to far away from Khan.
Hatty we still want as a friend.
When we decided to loose Education monopoly we can entice hatty to go figth someone.
From the last save, Cyrus has already Education.
Also, Huayna will be around for long time. I don't see Genghis capturing
that one tile island soon. There's something funny about that Incan city.
It's only one tile from another city.
Btw, what do we do with Rheims when it wants to join our empire?
Also, Huayna will be around for long time. I don't see Genghis capturing
that one tile island soon. There's something funny about that Incan city.
It's only one tile from another city.
Btw, what do we do with Rheims when it wants to join our empire?
Similar threads
- Locked
