LK129 - Zulu, Prince, Pangaea, Always War

I didn't get this started last night, physical exhaustion had me asleep almost 2 hours earlier then normal. I wanted to at least open the thread up.

Roster
LKendter (currently playing)
Killercane (on deck)
Pigswill
Kodii
Frankcor

LK, get your rest. You might want to edit post #1 when you wake up to show the parameters we're working with for future visitors:

Prince, map=Pangaea, civ = Zulu, goal = Just win baby
Always war
This may be my only time for AW with Civ4. I really don't know at this point. I will have to see how it plays out in an SG format.

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frankcor said:

LK, get your rest. You might want to edit post #1 when you wake up to show the parameters we're working with for future visitors:

Click to expand...

Well that is part of the title.
I don't recall how to contact a moderator to fix the title. I know I shouldn't do it under report bad post.

what title do you want it to be?

The correct title should be:
LK129 - Zulu, Prince, Pangaea, Always War

Thanks for the fix.

Ahh, right you are. I didn't pay attention to the title.

LKendter said:

The correct title should be:
LK129 - Zulu, Prince, Pangaea, Always War

Thanks for the fix.

Click to expand...

Who's got better moderators than Civfanatics?

This really shouldnt be TOO bad if we have copper. A big if. I think heavy pillaging is the order of the day, with chariot/impi pairs for each AI. I think tech trading will be fine, the AI wont research Alphabet until late with so much pillaging.

If no copper, and no horses, we will be pretty bad off. I guess we would have to just turtle up with archers and beeline for cats.

Settling on a hill might be vital for the early game.

lurker's comment: I don't have Warlords and thus not familiar with the Zulu, so my comments may not be strictly applicable ....

killercane said:

This really shouldnt be TOO bad if we have copper. A big if. I think heavy pillaging is the order of the day, with chariot/impi pairs for each AI. I think tech trading will be fine, the AI wont research Alphabet until late with so much pillaging.

If no copper, and no horses, we will be pretty bad off. I guess we would have to just turtle up with archers and beeline for cats.

Settling on a hill might be vital for the early game.

Click to expand...

Killercane's comments are pretty much right on the mark.

Exploration needs to be a priority in that you need to locate (not just contact) each civ's territory. Killercane suggests chariot/impi pairs for each civ, an excellent idea. I also like to use a pair of Archers fortified on a hill. Follow that up with some ponies for pillaging. The basic idea is to keep the AI scared, holed up, and not able to expand.

I'd suggest that you prioritize Archery over Bronze Working, but you will need bronze early for access to the whip.

As for settling on a hill, you really shouldn't see yourself attacked in the early game. The AI will be more interested in exploration. Unless you do something like leave the capital undefended, their Warriors will probably pass you on by. Now, your perimiter cities .... definitely on a hill!

The Impi is a great early-game pillaging machine. In our Cultural AW challenge, we turned several of them into Generals as GGs were created, giving them even added mobility. An Impi/Chariot pair was indestructible up until the time Longbows started to appear.

Checking in.

If we're always at war can we tech trade with anyone? (shows his inexperience of always war).

Anyone have an idea how vassalisation fits in with always war?

Initial thoughts are grab a corner of the continent so our frontline cities produce troops but rearguard (coastal) city/cities have a chance of growing without being pillaged to death.
Beeline feudalism for longbows, vassals and vassalage.
Conquer the world with cats.

lurker's comment:
You can't trade techs with the AI, but unless "No Tech Trading" is turned off the AI can still trade with each other

Sounds mighty interesting to lurk.

Some initial comments based on the 2 AW games I played:

1) The AI loves to block your coastal cities with ships. The commitment of resources to keep the sea zone open isn't worth is as you get very little advantage fighting at sea.

2) If you have a coastal resource (especially iron / copper) then be prepared to leave a couple of units on permanent garrison duty or you will be pillaged.

3) Developing tiles in front of your cities is very wasteful. You will be constantly forced to fight to avoid pillaging at bad odds. Let the AI waste there time attacking cities where you have the best odds.
3A) You need to get some forward cities so that you can have some well developed cities.

4) Troop kill ratios are the kill. Killing an AI unit to leave one of you units exposed doesn't work. Once all 7 civs come after us we need a kill ratio of at least 5 to 1. I would prefer a much higher ratio.

5) Filling out the rear for cities, rather the typical forward push works better for AW. See point 3A for one of the many reasons why.

lurker's comment:

pigswill said:

Anyone have an idea how vassalisation fits in with always war?

Click to expand...

That's a very interesting question. I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

First, LK has probably disabled vassal states.
Second, in TNT1 the vassal option was on, but it was never used,
because you can't contact a leader in a permanent war/always war
situation.

Checking in.

If I'm not mistaken, the AIs are permanently on the "Refuses to Talk" status in AW.

So no vassals, straight annihilation. Nice to have that cleared up before we start.

Well I just learned you can *LOSE* AW before you even get enough time to build a warrior!
The AI is next to Ulundi, and I still need 3 turns to finish my first warrior. I can't even whip to save myself, as bronze working isn't researched as of turn 15.

I will try again to get a valid start.

After a couple more false starts, then game is on. I draw an all seafood start, and a NO bronze visible for miles before I got this one that at least gives us a chance.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK129_BC-2650.CivWarlordsSave


4000 BC
Ulundi is formed, and research begins on archery.


3490 BC
We get animal husbandry from a hut.


3790 BC
We are at war with Huayna.


3730 BC
Our scout is already gone. I had to sacrifice he to draw Huayna away from the capitol to give us enough time to complete a warrior.
(IT) Archery is completed, and research begins on mining.


3640 BC
(IT) The war expands to include Khan.


3550 BC
(IT) I don't remember the declaration, but Mehmed is also on the list.


3400 BC
War has begun with Brennus.


3370 BC
(IT) The next tech research project is bronze worker.


2770 BC
(IT) Bronze working is completed. I revolt to slavery. Research begins on the wheel.

=======================

New Updates
We have visible copper for city number 2. The proposed site is below. If you are wondering why I ignored the clams, then you want to reread my earlier points about the AI loving to shut down water. In addition, this puts copper behind the lines from some directions. This should reduce the number of fights to avoid pillaging.




We need one more archer, then a settler to get city number two on-line.

Roster
LKendter
Killercane (currently playing)
Pigswill (on deck)
Kodii
Frankcor

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Open, a military win would fit AW the best.


Small wonders
Heroic Epic -
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic -
Iron Works -

Looks like a decent start to me; the copper site looks good as well.

Though it is probably small potatoes, should we chop the forests around Ulundi first, to prevent the AI from coming and effectively stationing themselves around our capital and to help pump out the necessary troops and settler to get our second city out?

Early chopping sounds good to me. We need to get copper city established asap especially with quechas about. I'd put copper city 1 south of copper, unimproved clams tile is still worth having.

Edit: We'd also benefit from having impis to do our scouting for us. There's a lot of unknown land around. Maybe give impis CR promotions and go for a rush?