The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm

Few tips for AI on war:
- The AI trow most of his "free" units on the front.
- The AI keep only 2-3 units for garnison in the back cities.
- The AI mostly keep all his transport ships in one coastal city which is commonly defended by 2-3 land units as i mentioned.
- If the AI didn't progress in war agains other AI that means his "free" units are not so many at all.
- The power graph care how big are the AI cities not only his real army.

Conclusion: Peter has big cities, Peter advance slow agains Brenus, Peter is in war already for some turns => His back coastal cities are lightly defended. It could be possible to sink all his galleons after only 1 city is raized and even if he managed to make 1-2 transports it wont be much trouble.If Novgorod, Yekaterininburg and Rostov are razed that surely will slow Peter research.

Now this is certainly beginning to make sense enough to be included as one option :) . Initiating a phony war while just sitting back and waiting naval invasion absolutely did not.

Although we should remember, that Pearl Harbor did not win the war for Japanese:p
 
Also remember that Declaring on Peter means declaring on Isabella as well.

The way I see it, the safe choice is Space Race Victory. Internet will gain you a lot of research worth of older techs, and since you have a secure continent at home and are free of any war (unless, it must be noted, Peter who is fighting as we discuss). Spies will seal the deal by selective sabotage of Peters infrastructure and builds. If you have any spare production (cities not building research or space parts) you can assemble a suicide-squad to be used in emergency against Peter if it looks like he will complete the race. (Hit a big city). But I think you will win pretty easy just on your own.

Risky way is war. Because you have to gear up for it now, and go for the military techs, mass produce artillery, tanks and draft hordes of infantry. However you will surely face 3 allied AI since Brennus should pack in and capitulate soon. There is no telling what Monty will do, getting him on your side will give you a fighting chance, but I can't see how that is gonna happen. And if he declares on you....well, good night and good luck.

Besides, Peter will be busy building his way to a space victory before you can conquer enough territory, I'd think.

Funny part is, on the other continent the only one not fighting currently is the lunatic Montezuma. Wonder what sick war-plans goes on in his head now...look out for backstabbing.
 
Can u please finish the game next round when u come back? it's been 2 months and we may get another IC before BTS xp come into play?:cool:
 
Wow, there's no way I would want to declare war on Peter at this point. Space Race is much more reliable and safer.
 
Can u please finish the game next round when u come back? it's been 2 months and we may get another IC before BTS xp come into play?:cool:
Seeing the pace this is going now i think this'll be the last for BTS. No problem, you could always try a game yourself, look at FH's cottagist thread or invisible stalk's isolated threads, not to forget aBigCivFan's warmonger's thread which was great fun to play and to read.

About the game, i've never tried to make war just for the purpose of stalling the AI, it could work but since Peter's already at war i can't imagine it'll do any good now, maybe as a desperation tactic later but i find it hard at this moment to take this tactic seriously.
 
I believe people are against declaring war on Russia because my ideas were completely mis-understood.

I never proposed sending a single unit outside our own cultural borders.

What I meant was, declare war on Russia, then let him send tanks, transports and battleships over. Between cultural barriers, logistics and city garrison bonuses, all you really need are redcoats and bombers. The whole purpose of war is to divert Russia's hammers from spaceship parts to military units, and then bog the invasion down.

Defensive doctrine:
- let him pillage your coastal tiles to death. You lose 3 health.
- 14 * (1 base + 0.4 cultural + 0.5 CGII from protective and barracks + 0.25 fortify) = 30.1 strength.
- bombers deal collateral damage to stacks.
- by the time he has modern armour, you have infantry. Change 14 to 20 and recalculate.

C'mon, you're protective, use it. Those that are against war... look, how ELSE are you going to slow down a space race defeat? Is that a danger? That is exactly the kind of thinking when housewives put all their money in savings accounts rather than in safe investments like government bonds, because they don't want to take any risks. But have they considered the risk of inflation running rampant and having unexpected medical emergencies eroding their retirement fuinds?

That's what I'm talking about: the risk of NOT luring a Russian attack.
 
The other thing to bear in mind is that that once he declares on Peter, aelf's vassals will also be at war. Peter might try to attack them before aelf as the soft option. Similarly Peter has Izzy as a vassal so aelf needs to bear that in mind and make preparations for that. I suggest he railroads at least the main access into his vassals' territory as well as his own, that will help them economically and allow him to defend them better.

I'm not sure what Monty's relations with Izzy are like, without checking the game, but it might be better to declare on Izzy rather than Peter and that will force Peter to declare on aelf and his allies. I'm not sure if there could be a diplomatic advantage in doing it that way. It depends whether Brennus or Monty have better relations with either Peter or Izzy.
 
First time I had to find Aelf's game on the second page.

It will be interesting to see how we can pull off the diplomacy coup on Peter. Lets hope that Peter can be weakened sufficiently so that we can catch up and win with a Space Race victory.
 
I'm back! And I've finished playing the next round, so the update should be up soon :)


EDIT: Well, I thought this was a rather poor way of delivering news, so I came back to add some juicy details to keep you guys interested in the meantime ;)

As you know, we have a tough road ahead and some difficult decisions to make. So what will it be? Will it be war against the much more advanced and powerful Peter? Will we be able to catch up in the midst or in the lack of one? Will we get the Internet in time? Will we be able to get the Space Elevator? Will it be a close race to the stars, or will a clear winner emerge before the final turns?

You can look forward to the answers to some of these questions in the upcoming update.
 
well, i believe this IC must be a win after the hard time with germany. i was thinking about next IC, I was selfish to ask u whether u would like to run another IC before we could completely transfer to BTS?
 
i was thinking about next IC, I was selfish to ask u whether u would like to run another IC before we could completely transfer to BTS?

Unlikely. It's about a week more before BTS is released. I will try to finish this game before then, but subsequently it will likely be under BTS. And I'm thinking of changing the rules a bit, but I haven't thought of something viable and interesting.

Anyway, I thought maybe I'd post at least part of the update last night, but I had an internet connection problem so I was cut off from the WWW until today. I'll try to post the update later.
 
Round 10: 1819AD - 1887AD

At the beginning of the round, I held off the decision of whether we should go to war with Peter or not, but decided to research Artillery next. It leads to Rocketry, and if there was going to be war artillery might be useful.

A few turns into the round, Brennus came and asked for aid:



This could be the perfect opportunity to declare on Peter. However, it still carried a huge risk, since we didn't have Railroads yet. What tipped the scales was the fact that our latest GM was still in a galleon en route to the other continent. Declaring on Peter now would mean we lose that GM. It wasn't an attractive prospect so I declined. Yes, that meant our relationship with Brennus was now too far gone, and I stopped entertaining ideas of making him Pleased again to trade with.

And then something happened:



In case the letters are a little too small, they read: "Montezuma has declared war on Peter!" Yes, the same Montezuma who trembled at the might of the Russian military. Brennus offered to vassalize to him and suddenly he's not so afraid anymore. Weird AI.

Anyhow, this was a great development for us. We wanted Peter to be at war so badly, and suddenly we got it without even having to do anything :goodjob: Perhaps we would jump on the bandwagon soon, after our GM had settled his business. It's certainly safer to do so now.

And it seemed that we might need the mutual struggle bonus soon:



No idea why he decided he had had enough, since relations did not change.

Anyway, I noticed that Bismark had finally hooked up his oil, so I immediately asked for it as tribute from him:



Those words are certainly gratifying. "Give me this or you'll get it!" :lol: But is this tribute limited to only 10 turns? Later on, Bismark cancelled the deal and when I asked for it again, he refused. A while later, though, I could demand it from him as a compulsory tribute again. Weird.

Our GM finally reached his destination:



We cashed his goods at the usual rate of 4050 gold. This would again help with our research. I set a side about 2000 gold for emergency upgrades, though, especially since we were going to dogpile on Peter:



Of course we weren't really going to do anything. We were only in it to annoy Peter, hopefully hindering him further, and earn some brownie points from Monty and Brennus. Indeed, the latter was achieved immediately as both of them agreed to open borders.

I expected Peter to send plenty of destroyers to pillage our coastline, as the AI love to do, and even a boatload of units to try and invade us (in which case the spare cash would come in handy - suddenly those veteran Redcoats would turn into infantry). However, Isabella was the one who sent some destroyers, and not many of them. Peter did almost nothing. We managed to get by quite well without facing severe problems of unhealthiness and starvation like in the war against Bismark.

Since little actual fighting was done, WW wasn't a problem either. Our research went ahead at full steam, and after Artillery we researched Radio and Computers for the labs.

The only real action that took place was the capture of the Spanish city of Santiago on our continent:



Since it was pretty much worthless and the tile was covered by our culture by now anyway, I decided to raze it. Not worth the upkeep.

By now the war had gone on for a while. Before the capture of Santiago, Peter was already willing to sign peace for 200+ gold from us. Right after Santiago, Monty signed peace with Peter, and I decided to follow suit at a rate that had dropped:



Not a bad deal. We came out pretty unscathed. Peter managed to capture a few small cities from Monty and one Celtic city, but the war did seem to have slowed him down since he had no new techs to show for quite a while.

After Computers, the first tech we had on Peter in a long long time, we headed for Fibre Optics via Rocketry and Satellites, as planned.

Unfortunately, not long after the war was over, Brennus had already begun to forget our mutual struggle:



No matter. We should be able to get to Fibre Optics first and grab the Internet, so tech trading wasn't that important at this point.

Then Peter came and made a demand:



Of course I said no. Give him a tech that would unlock his powerful UB? That would be stupid. He grew furious, and I gave him a resource for free to try and mollify him. Don't know if that made a difference, but anything to prevent us from getting attacked alone.

Anyway, Ravenna, our Ironworks city was building the Rock and Roll, but I delayed it for some time until we got our GE. Once the Ironworks was complete, Ravenna had been running as many engineers as possible and had built the Heroic Epic in the hopes of generating a GE that would be handy for the Space Elevator. Rock and Roll would introduce more Great Artist points and I wanted to minimise our chances of missing the GE. As a result, we missed the wonder instead, but the returns were quite worth it:



That just meant we could afford to run 100% research for a while longer. And, more importantly, our plan worked:



:goodjob: Now we only needed to get to Fusion first to earn the free GE and we might just be able to build the Space Elevator before Peter.

[to be continued in the next post...]
 
[continued from previous post]

And we did get to Fusion first:



:goodjob: At this rate, it looks like Peter is going to be left in the dust, not us.

By the way, the Internet was in construction, as you could see from the screenshot before the last. Ravenna was building the Apollo Program but stopped to build it. 27 turns seemed like a long time, but the turns flew by. In the middle of it, Caesar was suddenly willing to trade, so I gave him Radio for Railroads and Monotheism:



No harm getting the rails up a bit earlier. We could also do with a little production boost for our mines, especially the two at Ravenna.

And then I noticed that Monty's power graph, which had taken a mighty plunge in the last war, had risen sharply and was now on par with Peter's. Good old Monty. I decided to ask if he was willing to declare on Peter again, and all he required was a small price:



Take that, Peter! Now you will never be able to win. Mwahahaha! Well, probably not anyway.

But I knew it was only a matter of time before Monty asked us to join. True enough, the request came quickly:



It then occurred to me that this might the perfect opportunity to snag Monty and Brennus' votes and maybe win a diplomatic victory. Isabella had Mass Media already, but it was unlikely that she would build the UN. It wouldn't be a problem for us, though, with our strong research and a GE to help with the construction. So we joined the war. If we could win earlier, why not?

And soon, we completed the wonder we had coveted:



All the quotes from the techs we got were music to my ears. Suddenly, the tech trading screen was clean:



Hooray for the Internet! :lol: Now we're more advanced than Peter. How do like that, buddy?

Well, this is where the round ended. The power graph now:



Monty and Peter must be busy duking it out over there. Good for us.

The GNP graph:



We're the undisputed champions now.

Production graph:



We're also winning here. Good to know if we're going for a space victory.

The map of our continent:



Yes, happiness is at a premium now. Some resources had become obsolete and WW was beginning to set in. We might just have to sacrifice more research for culture.

The map of the other continent:



Not very updated, but you can guess from the blank spaces that some cities have changed hands. Do you see Madrid and Toledo? Me neither. Monty has the upper hand now and has captured these major cities from the Spanish and the Russians. Good for him and good for us. That means more votes for us and fewer everything for Peter :goodjob:

Now, how do we proceed? Looks like both diplomatic and space victories are possible. The former would be earlier, but that probably depends on whether we can get Brennus' votes. Shouldn't be too difficult - probably just a question of when. In view of that, I'm thinking of spending one of our GEs on the UN to get it asap and hasten our victory. However, you guys might think that we could slow build the UN anyway and save the GEs for the Space Elevator as a back up plan. It may mean a slower victory, but there would be more certainty. What do you say?
 

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Save the GE for the Space Elevator and Build the UN brick by brick. I believe that Space is more safe now ( Peter and Monty are really fighting, so probably Peter won't have time to try the UN ( the only " can go wrong" thing in here) )
This game surely looks better than it looked in the previous update. Good job aelf! :goodjob:
 
Tossing hammers into the UN isn't a bad idea, but it's also not hugely important. Save the GEs for the Space Elevator, and play like you're oging for a space win. Just dedicate your 2nd prod. city for the UN. If it happens, great! If not...meh. Win via space. You should be able to keep any AI from winning via diple anyways. Mostly I'd dedicate your big cities to producing the requisite wonders (Apollo and Elevator) and figure out what other cities will be needed for components. Side cities I'd use to just build military units to try and boost your power a bit, and just in case Peter decides to do a decent job invading.
 
I have to say that I love how this came down to a Space Race between the English and the Russian Communists. Sometimes Civ 4 is like real life. On the other hand, I don't remember the Aztecs playing a role in the real Cold War, but I'm no historian.
 
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