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Old May 04, 2007, 11:21 AM   #61
Neoclast
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I have been doing some practice runs with Cyrus here in preps of this game. Last night the first person I attacked was good ole Mansa and his skirmishers. It was not that bad, and I was able to take out on average 1 skirmisher in a city with two imortals. Mansa never got spearmen and thus it was a fairly easy early war. The next target was Hatty, over Mao or Saladin. She had her war chariots and spearmen. Using a mix of promotions though and it was not bad to break into her cities. I used a fair amount of Flanking 2 Immortals to hit the town first, then I had some with shock to hit the town next and rough up the spearmen even more. I even had a few Immortals with Formation to help with those stupid chariots of hers. Thebes was the hardest to take as it had 60% defense, but by this time I had some swordsmen, axemen, and spearmen caught up to the front line.

All in all it was a great war, with lots of pillaging and razing. And though I had fallen behind in techs (wasn't really paying attention to that side of things) I left her with one city when she offered to settle for peace by giving me every visible tech she had.

I would definitely vote that when having the map checked for isolation that it also be checked to make sure that you have a fair opportunity to get horses. I have never been one for an early war like this, so I really want to see someone with experience get it done.
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Old May 04, 2007, 11:31 AM   #62
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In my practice game with Cyrus I took out two entire civs prior to the medieval era with nothing but his UU. Ended up with somewhere between 10 and 15 cities before 500AD. That left me with one more civ on my continent that I could've taken out prior to meeting the civs from over-seas. From there I would've finished settling my continent and settle in for a run to astronomy and military tradition/chem/rifling/steel to finish the game off.
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Old May 04, 2007, 11:45 AM   #63
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I agree that the map will determine if the GW is worthwhile--specifically, if there's stone available early. I've used it as some of you have described: declare war and let the enemy come to you, then kill them on your own turf. Besides contributing to the GW's GG bonus, this also diminishes war weariness. It also empties enemy cities of units that would otherwise defend.

Those of you fretting about Spearmen need to remember that one of the Immortals' main jobs in that regard will be pillaging any copper or iron mines as the first order of business. I'll also try to strike early well before the AI has Bronze Working, which they tend to delay more than a human player would.

I'm usually pretty conservative with my Great Generals, but that's because I usually don't get that many of them. The first becomes the M*A*S*H unit (Medic III). It's just so valuable for keeping a stack on the march. The others usually get settled until Education comes along and I can boost my military cities (I usually have 2) with Military Academies. I like the idea, by the way, of splitting HE and WP, compensating by settling 2 GGs in the HE city. Smart!

If I manage to generate more GGs, however, then I may have a little fun with them by creating a more offensive-minded warlord unit. I had fun with that in my last game as Rome, creating an uber-Praetorian with CRIII, Leadership, and then Combat promotions out the wazoo. I think he finished the game at Level 8 or 9, IIRC. Fun!
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Old May 04, 2007, 12:05 PM   #64
Dr Elmer Jiggle
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I'm usually pretty conservative with my Great Generals, but that's because I usually don't get that many of them. The first becomes the M*A*S*H unit (Medic III).
The main thing to keep in mind here is that since you're Charismatic, you only need 13 experience to reach Medic 3. There's no usually no point in getting extra promotions for your medic, since you're going to be doing whatever is possible to keep him out of combat. Therefore, make sure you spread the warlord's experience boost to enough units that you aren't wasting it.

Probably the easiest way is to join him with two fresh units with just +3 barracks experience. That would give 10 experience to each unit giving you two units with four promotions each. Maybe do one Medic 3 immortal (it's always nice if your medic has the extra mobility of a mounted unit, and they're that much less likely to be chosen as a defender) and one City Raider 3 / Combat 1 melee unit (sword or axe, depending on what you have available at the time).
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Old May 04, 2007, 12:29 PM   #65
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The main thing to keep in mind here is that since you're Charismatic, you only need 13 experience to reach Medic 3. There's no usually no point in getting extra promotions for your medic, since you're going to be doing whatever is possible to keep him out of combat. Therefore, make sure you spread the warlord's experience boost to enough units that you aren't wasting it.

Probably the easiest way is to join him with two fresh units with just +3 barracks experience. That would give 10 experience to each unit giving you two units with four promotions each. Maybe do one Medic 3 immortal (it's always nice if your medic has the extra mobility of a mounted unit, and they're that much less likely to be chosen as a defender) and one City Raider 3 / Combat 1 melee unit (sword or axe, depending on what you have available at the time).
I'll think about that, though it may be a little too micro-managey for me. I usually give the Medic III unit an additional promotion--usually March. That way if the stack gets hit by a siege weapon attack, the Medic III unit can keep going. The other promotion I sometimes give that unit is Morale for +1 movement point, but I find the unit tends to stick with the plodding stack, so it's not as useful.
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Old May 04, 2007, 01:06 PM   #66
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I think you'll have a lot of fun with this one Sis. Immortals are awesome and the Apothecary is a good addition. But...who needs horses? When you're Imp/Chm, you can kick copious amounts of ass just fine without 'em!
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Old May 04, 2007, 01:12 PM   #67
Dr Elmer Jiggle
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The other promotion I sometimes give that unit is Morale for +1 movement point, but I find the unit tends to stick with the plodding stack, so it's not as useful.
Agreed (on both counts). Sentry is also a nice one to give to the medic. It lets your non-combat, utility unit perform double duty, and it also lets him keep an eye out for enemies looking to finish off your injured stack. The problem is that it requires two additional promotions (Flanking 1 and Sentry) beyond those needed for Medic 3 (29 or 30 experience total, I think). It works best with Carthage where you pick up Flanking 1 for free (Numidian Cavalry) along with the Charismatic experience bonus.
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Old May 04, 2007, 02:01 PM   #68
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Agreed (on both counts). Sentry is also a nice one to give to the medic. It lets your non-combat, utility unit perform double duty, and it also lets him keep an eye out for enemies looking to finish off your injured stack. The problem is that it requires two additional promotions (Flanking 1 and Sentry) beyond those needed for Medic 3 (29 or 30 experience total, I think). It works best with Carthage where you pick up Flanking 1 for free (Numidian Cavalry) along with the Charismatic experience bonus.
It would be nice if it was easier to achieve that Medic II/Sentry combination. As it is, my stack usually has two mounted non-combatants--the medic and the sentry. (Though in a pinch, the sentry unit does, sometimes, see some action.)
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Old May 04, 2007, 04:38 PM   #69
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I had fun with that in my last game as Rome, creating an uber-Praetorian with CRIII, Leadership, and then Combat promotions out the wazoo. I think he finished the game at Level 8 or 9, IIRC. Fun!
I then claim my level 13 (or was it 14) Keshik (then cav). That guy rocked, and his two buddies lvl 10 too
did not have time to promote him to gunship, too bad

Samuraļs can get insane promotions too
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Old May 04, 2007, 05:55 PM   #70
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Samuraļs can get insane promotions too
Especially if they're promoted from already-experienced Swordsmen.
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Old May 05, 2007, 02:15 AM   #71
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i thought this series was for promoting variety? Don't do the same tired strategy of making first GG a Medic. Make him offense or settle for a cumulative effect of a constantly improving army. I know, let's be real original and build the great library and lightbulb our way to liberalism... Let's see some new tactics.
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Old May 05, 2007, 02:28 AM   #72
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i thought this series was for promoting variety? Don't do the same tired strategy of making first GG a Medic. Make him offense or settle for a cumulative effect of a constantly improving army. I know, let's be real original and build the great library and lightbulb our way to liberalism... Let's see some new tactics.
I agree. I think a settled 1st GG is the way to go. Immortals are pre-Vassalage/pre-Theocracy. Used correctly, the're even pre-Stables.
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Old May 05, 2007, 02:57 AM   #73
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barrack+westpoint+pentagon+2 millitary instructor pop out 13xp unit. which is level 5!!!
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Old May 05, 2007, 03:57 AM   #74
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Westpoint + 4 Military Instructors gives you units with the Commando-promotion right out of the barracks... Very doable with Cyrus.
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Old May 05, 2007, 03:58 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Hold The Onion View Post
i thought this series was for promoting variety? Don't do the same tired strategy of making first GG a Medic. Make him offense or settle for a cumulative effect of a constantly improving army. I know, let's be real original and build the great library and lightbulb our way to liberalism... Let's see some new tactics.
A Medic III unit is a very effective tool in warfare. Especially since Cyrus is Imperialistic, there's no rush to get GMIs. It's much better to have an excellent healer early on to speed up your campaigns.

It's one thing to play for variety and another to ignore effective strategies. Or else, you might as well play a variety where you can't build workers or something.
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Old May 05, 2007, 07:21 AM   #76
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A Medic III unit is a very effective tool in warfare. Especially since Cyrus is Imperialistic, there's no rush to get GMIs. It's much better to have an excellent healer early on to speed up your campaigns.

It's one thing to play for variety and another to ignore effective strategies. Or else, you might as well play a variety where you can't build workers or something.
Very well said. 1st GG should always be a mash unit, it's simply the most effective use of it at that time. Subsequent ones with a charismatic leader should be settled, not used for military academies. This is because the strength of a charismatic leader is a highly-promoted army.

Let me just stress again that with your immortals you should prioritize the combat-line of promotions and eventually get the blitz promotion. These guys are really uber and you can promote them to knights and cavalry later--rox so hard!!!
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Old May 05, 2007, 07:44 AM   #77
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Very well said. 1st GG should always be a mash unit, it's simply the most effective use of it at that time. Subsequent ones with a charismatic leader should be settled, not used for military academies. This is because the strength of a charismatic leader is a highly-promoted army.

Let me just stress again that with your immortals you should prioritize the combat-line of promotions and eventually get the blitz promotion. These guys are really uber and you can promote them to knights and cavalry later--rox so hard!!!
I'd like to reiterate this - definitely the way to go. Blitz knights/cavalry with the march promotion make for an unstoppable war machine.

By far the most important thing is to use 100% Immortals in your early wars, in the same way you'd use 100% war chariots with Egypt. They're cheap so don't worry about losing a few (plus with cheaper charismatic promotions, those veterans are more easily replaced). The worst crime you could commit is waiting to have some axes//swords/spears for your stack and slowing the whole assult down. Take advantage of their speed to hit cities before the AI has a chance to whip out a load of extra defenders.
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Old May 05, 2007, 09:32 AM   #78
Dr Elmer Jiggle
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A Medic III unit is a very effective tool in warfare. Especially since Cyrus is Imperialistic, there's no rush to get GMIs.
And since he's Charismatic, using a Great General as a warlord is even more profitable. As I mentioned earlier, a warlord plus two barracks-generated units makes two units with 13 experience each. As a Charismatic leader, that gives you two units with 4 promotions each, which is huge! Those guys should both survive until the end of the game (with upgrades, obviously) as major workhorses for your army.

I agree that it's fun to play a variety of approaches, but I think it's clear that the main goal of the ALC is to play each leader in a way that takes best advantage of his or her unique characteristics. In Cyrus' case, those characteristics lead you to the choice of using your first Great General to make a Medic III unit. If that's been done before, too bad. It's still the right thing to do here.
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Old May 05, 2007, 10:39 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Hold The Onion View Post
i thought this series was for promoting variety? Don't do the same tired strategy of making first GG a Medic. Make him offense or settle for a cumulative effect of a constantly improving army. I know, let's be real original and build the great library and lightbulb our way to liberalism... Let's see some new tactics.
The series is for promoting using a leaders traits, UU, and UB to maximum effect - when possible.

It is not always a good idea to build the GL, but it usually is. If you can win the Liberalism race, why wouldn't you? If you can have a Medic III unit in your stack, especially with March, you'd be kinda dumb not to.....

Cyrus is made for early warfare and lots of GGs, which means a Medic III unit is a highly likely boon in the early game, the Great Library will be very useful in helping to keep up with the tech race, and Liberalism can solidify a moving-into-the-modern-age tech superiority. The circumstances of the game will decide if those are smart moves, but if you *can* do them, they usually are.....
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Old May 05, 2007, 11:12 AM   #80
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Let's get this one-legged arse kicking contest started!!!
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