Vassalage civic

what dies the 10 free units mean? never figured it out :/

you don't pay mainteinance for a number of units.This number is not fixed but depends on the number of your units and probably other factors, so if you have 100 units Vassalage probably will make more than 10 units for free.

ok, thanks

Do many people actually use Vassalage?

I almost never use it... I usually get Civil Service at the same time, and I'd much rather run Bureaucracy than Vassalage

Is it better than I'm giving it credit for? I prefer Theocracy for the +2 experience points...

I used to run Vasslage all the time... Having discovered the overwhelming usefulness of Bureaucracy recently, I'm more inclined to use Theocracy when I need the 2XP. Although now I lean more towards settling instructors so I can run either OR or FR instead.

Vassalage IS more useful than Environmentalism though.

bonafide11 said:

Do many people actually use Vassalage?

I almost never use it... I usually get Civil Service at the same time, and I'd much rather run Bureaucracy than Vassalage

Is it better than I'm giving it credit for? I prefer Theocracy for the +2 experience points...

Click to expand...

If you are playing a warmongering game it is a must or at least a really good choice.Going for a domination vixtory or conquest requires a lot of units, if you have an army which is about 100 units or more Vassalage will really cut costs for military mainteinance and if you use theocracy,Vassalage just stacks very well with this religious civic (it's easy to get experienced units).
I reached domination just 3 times and Vassalge was nearly an obliged choice for me, Theocracy has its negative effects considering that it block no state religions spreading in your cities.

PS: If you are charismatic-
Barracks + Theocracy + Vassalage + Instructor = 9XP = 3 Promotions. For mounted units you can substitute any of those for a stable.

I use it when I'm on a military footing, oftern in combo with theocracy. I use Bureaucracy when I'm not building up a huge army.

Vassalage has replaced bureaucracy most of the time in my games since the CS-slingshot has become rather difficult to pull.

Of the religious civics, Theocracy is the weakest for my play. In the beginning I like to run OR for the infrastructure. Then Pacifism for some extra GP's if a option. FR is much better then Theocracy me thinks.

And nowadays Bureaucracy has high-upkeep, dunno if it is worth it after youre Empire has grown to a certain size.

Finally, Vassalage gives XP's in EVERY city, T. only in the ones with state religion. Is better, though higher upkeep, then again: free units.

(of course when spiritual you just run what is best for your Reich.)

I think they should lower the Civics Cost of Vassalage from High to Medium, as I only use this civic for Warmonger Leaders.

I've never tried the vassalage civic as I usually like to balance military and economy by use of Bureaucracy/Theocracy during the middle ages. But I'm a firm believer in this game that there can be no hard or fast rule in the use of civics or style of economy - it's whatever suits the situation you're in which varies with game set up and choice of leader. It's taken me to my 14th game to finally contemplate using it, and of those 13 won games, 11 have been by domination/conquest. Go figure! And its the first time in warlords I've tried a philosophical leader!

probably a higher percentage of my wins are games where i never fought without a single war, than for normal people. i'm really a builder and love to manipulate the world through diplomacy, so that biases my thinking.

spiritual is one of my favorite traits. i get to do stuff like "yeah, ok, i didn't really want to be at war right now, and i need great person so-and-so in seven turns, Cyrus you're a jerkface but let me see what i can do now that you attacked me", so change with no anarchy to vassalage/whatever but keep pacifism since i want the GP and because it just makes me giggle to be a pacifist while i'm fighting a war .

vassalage vs. theocracy: folks have mentioned that for theocracy to work, you have to have your religion spread to those cities. of course theocracy doesn't do you any good if you don't have a state religion. well, if i'm trying out something new on a high difficulty level and just cannot afford to have someone declare war on me yet, but i know darn well that someday sometime somebody will, one of the things i do to delay that is that i simply don't pick a religion. that helps prevent diplo -s with all flavors of heathens out there, and can keep the wolves at bay a while longer (although not forever). results vary by neighbor of course, some are more psycho than others, some come by with demands to convert that can actually be quite handy if you're spiritual, just switch back 5 turns later but you've gotten on their good side a bit in the procress. whatever, you play it by ear.

yes, theocracy can be a big help during wartime. but simply having it as an option, since that requires that you have a religion, increases the chances that you'll be fighting a war . many people never think of it that way since they go around starting all the wars themselves in the first place. you guys and your violent ways. *giggle*

vassalage is a lot safer! of course you don't have to pick between the two, they can stack if you use both.

@Calder: "But I'm a firm believer in this game that there can be no hard or fast rule in the use of civics or style of economy - it's whatever suits the situation you're in which varies with game set up and choice of leader." so true, which is fantastic! part of why i'm still here after playing i don't know how many hours, the game is complex enough to not get boring. i hope you have fun playing around with philo and some others you might not have tried

These days I'm playing without a religion as long as I can. I haven't had a city flip yet, and it seems like I can trade and war with whom I chose more easily.

Usually I adopt vassalage as soon as it comes along. It seems like my countryside is improved, and I'm busy building catapults at that phase.

Theo is great in multiplayer. Really a must have in most cases.

Specifically, Vassalage removes the 'support' cost associated with fielding units in enemy territory. That cost is seperate from your normal military maintenance. If you aren't currently fielding a large number of units outside your borders, the "free units" bonus of Vassalage doesn't come into play at all. If you are at war, though, the support cost adds up very quickly (+1 maintenance/2 units in enemy territory over the free limit), so Vassalage might make the war more affordable.

Also consider if you're spiritual and have some money in the bank, a few turns of vassalage+theocracy is an easy way to build an good army without a lot of barracks.