Archipelago maps

[vormuir]

I've been playing with archipelago maps lately. They make an interesting challenge -- harder than fractal, continents or Pangaea, but not as hard as a move to the next level.

I don't see much about archie maps. Do people play them much? Has anyone done a strategy article?

Anyway, here are some preliminary thoughts.

-- You may get an isolated start. However, it's not unusual to have one or more AI civs within trireme range. In fact, I'd say you're only really isolated about 20% of the time. You get a single neighbor maybe 40% of the time and two or more neighbors about the same.

You can't tech trade with a neighbor until that neighbor has contacted at least two civs. So this means no early tech trading about 60% of the time.

-- Limited land mass means that barbarians are almost never a problem. A couple of fogbusters will turn them off.

-- Because of the difficulty in reaching other civs, early UUs are at a disadvantage.

They're not always useless; if you have a near neighbor, it is possible to conduct war by trireme. I wiped out Isabella with War Chariots in one recent game. Still, it's not the way to bet. If you are picking your leaders, look for one with a mid- or late-game UU.

-- Limited resources are likely to be an issue. On a normal map, you're very likely to have iron or copper within a few squares of your starting location. On an archie map, maybe not. And happiness resources will also be harder to find.

You can't conquer or trade for new resources for a while, so you have to find other ways to stay healthy and happy. Monarchy and Hereditary Rule help a lot here.

-- Founding an early religion becomes more attractive, as you're less likely to catch religion from a neighbor.

-- The various traits work the same, but Financial is enhanced a bit (because you'll be working a lot of coastal tiles), while Aggressive and Protective are a bit weaker (because you're less likely to get into early wars).

-- Your Wonder wish list will be different. Wonders that work on a single continent, like Notre Dame, Three Gorges Dam, and the Statue of Liberty, are almost worthless now. (You're not likely to have more than three or four cities on any one island.) Other hand, the "water" wonders -- Great Lighthouse and Colossus -- are enhanced.

-- The circumnavigation bonus becomes highly desirable. You really want to be the first to Optics, both for this and for meeting other civs as early as possible.

Unfortunately Optics requires two expensive technologies -- Machinery and Compass -- that don't give you much payoff in the short run. It can be frustrating to forego Civil Service and Literature in order to beeline Optics. Consider trying for a Machinery slingshot with the Oracle; you have to get Metal Casting first, which is possible but requires some advance planning.

Alternately, consider using a Great Person to lightbulb it. A Merchant can do this, and so can an Engineer. It may seem crazy to burn a Great Engineer on something like this, but in the context of an archie map it's worth considering. Getting Optics ten turns earlier means you nail the circumnavigation bonus, scoop up the remaining goodie huts, get first crack at converting any civs without religion, and start real tech trading that much faster.

-- After Optics your next beeline should be to Astronomy. Consider carefully whether you can pull of a Liberalism slingshot. If yes, great -- get on it. If no, do it the hard way. But anyway, do it fast, because the first civ to get Astronomy will get first crack at the remaining empty islands. There are usually a couple of nice city sites within reach, if you're quick enough.

Pause for now. Thoughts?


Waldo

[Zombie69]

I like playing on archipelago sometimes. I particularly like tiny islands with low water level. In those games, it's pretty common to be able to circumnavigate the world and meet everyone with just a workboat. I wouldn't say it's harder than the standard setup, for me it's actually easier. For me, a deity game on tiny islands is about as hard as an immortal game on fractals.

But then, when i play on tiny islands, i pick Washington, which is a huge help. In vanilla Civ 4, Washington is financial, which means all coastal tiles produce 3 commerce instead of 2. He's also organized, which will help since on this sort of map empires tend to be quite spread out. Also, he starts with fishing, so you can start working water tiles right away and make your first build a work boat. Finally, his Navy SEALS can come in handy for the final push. Vanilla Washington is totally broken on tiny islands.

[johncross21]

Thread on page 2 (on the Rocks)

Brief summary

Play epic (because moving people by ship takes time)

- choose vikings
beserkers are good

- build lighthouse great wonder as early as possible
- build collossus via metal casting (metal casting get you beserkers). However bear in mind that astronomy makes collossus obsolete

- explore as much as possible at first opportunity using workboats

Consider the naval technologies (sailing, calendar, metalcasting, astronomy, airpower)

Hunt out key resources from an early stage (especially iron which is essential for frigates). Make these resource islands priority for colonisation

Biggest problem is lack of hammers so
- expect slow start and slow progress
- explore early and colonise bigger islands for hammers
- grow cities using water squares and whip them to produce buildings etc

Second problem is distance and transport
- in a world short of hammers building ships takes time
- but you need to have enough ships to move workers from island to island
- build city specialising in ship production as well as city for troops

In terms of combat AI seems weak (because it is not organised enough to plan attacks) but it will launch occasional attacks on your islands. Be relaxed about this and counterattack if necessary. However protect cities with lots of hammers

Ignore small islands on rocks.

[xanadux]

Victoria for Expansive/Financial can be very nice too. Cheap harbors are very nice on arch maps, and extra health is nice because you will not have so many forests. Of course cheap granaries and financial are both obviously nice. The later UU is good too.

[Zombie69]

I disagree with a lot of this. Most importantly the perceived lack of hammers.

Originally Posted by johncross21

Play epic (because moving people by ship takes time)

Ships have more movement than land troops. Moving people by ships actually takes less time than by foot.

Originally Posted by johncross21

- explore as much as possible at first opportunity using workboats

This i totally agree with, and it's the most crucial tip anyone could give about playing on tiny islands.

Originally Posted by johncross21

Biggest problem is lack of hammers so
- expect slow start and slow progress
- explore early and colonise bigger islands for hammers
- grow cities using water squares and whip them to produce buildings etc

Actually, the biggest problem is the lack of commerce, due to the lack of tiles suitable for cottages. Tiny islands are heavy on seafood, seafood provides lots of food, and every food can easily be converted into about 2 hammers with the whip. A single fish provides 6 food with a lighthouse, which is equivalent to 12 hammers! Try to find a tile that provides 12 hammers in the game, and you'll quickly see that seafood are some of the best hammers tiles anywhere (and mines suck compared to those).

Every single city should whip at least once every 10 turns if not more, and everytime you whip, you want to whip away as many pop levels as possible. This way, you get the most hammers out of each -1 unhappiness.

Everytime i play tiny islands, i'm drowning in hammers from the whip. The really rare cities for me, and those that i really cherrish, are those with lots of cottages. These are the ones that must be protected at all costs.

Originally Posted by johncross21

Second problem is distance and transport
- in a world short of hammers building ships takes time
- but you need to have enough ships to move workers from island to island

As said above, hammers are extremely plentiful. Ships, as well as everything else, are built in no time. Workers are a problem, but not a very big one. Don't try to move 4 workers on one island and have them improve it real quick, then move to the next one. Rather, keep a single worker on each island and let him handle it slowly but surely. That way, you need fewer transport trips. The reason i don't like worker trips in boats is not because it ties up my boats, but because it ties up workers in turns where they're not making any improvement.

Originally Posted by johncross21

Ignore small islands on rocks.

Take every single 1-tile island that has at least 2 seafood tiles. Also, take every single 1-tile island that has one seafood tile and lots of coastal tiles (as opposed to ocean tiles, because of proximity of other islands). These cities are all great for hammers (because of seafood) as well as for commerce (because of coastal tiles and financial).

[svv]

If you set the options for low seas, and play an arch map, you'll actually find that the "islands" can be quite large - or at least quite long.

[johncross21]

I bow your greater experience, Zombie69 but a couple of points of clarification

Ships are faster than people but unless you have an armada (and thats not going to happen in the early game) you may have to make return trips - and that will slow down progress

On whipping - a good point. I did mention whipping but perhaps it deserves the greater emphasis you have given it - but of course sea resources are not as plentiful as hills are on a land map. In any case cottages or hammers the point is don't sniff at a good piece of turf.

Finally whether you take the rocks - may depend on how fast you can absorb cities in your empire - but your points are again noted.

[Heeringas]

I also think that archipelago or island maps are lot easier than continents... I won my first space race on immortal level with the vikings in archipelago map.

some things that makes those maps easier are : not many barbs, circumnavigation with fishing boat, easier denfense against AI that suck on naval war, financial commerce bonus from coast tiles, and if you manage to get The Great Lighthouse- huge traderoad bonus, because all your cites are probaly coastal. (if you priorize GL you get it farely easily even on immortal)


"Originally Posted by johncross21 :build collossus via metal casting (metal casting get you beserkers)."

For Berserks you need Civil service and Machinenary (it replaces Maceman)

But one thing that makes archipelago and islands maps harder than other maps is that AI can´t war, in a way it´s easy for you, but on the other hand,

You have to do all the killing yourself or you have to try space race or diplomatic victory....,

If they haven´t done any wars, they have just tech like mads and their cities are huge and productive

what makes diplomatic victory hard is that if AI hasn´t war, they are likely be really friendly towards eachother...

So you better hit early and hit hard and hit everybody...

[tycoonist]

lack of production makes war harder and therefore the game less interesting IMO

[johncross21]

In the later stages of the game you get flight. Switch to slavery and whip airports in your major cities. That greatly simplifies logistics.

[johncross21]

In the later stages of the game you get flight. Switch to slavery and whip airports in your major cities. That greatly simplifies logistics.

[oyzar]

wow is herditary rule good... I had a basecap of 5 for most of the game but still had most of my cities in double digits, just crazy how many warriors you can stack in a city. I also learned that chemistry obsoleet warrior which caused some problems in some of my newer cities. Great lightouse is nuts and basically makes you delay cooperation as long as possibl eas its easy 100+ beakers a turn.

[hvevo]

I often play tiny islands maps with Carthage. Cothons (+1 trade routes) with the Colossus, the Great Lighthouse and the Temple of Artemis allow to get maximum commerence from water tiles. I also try to create some Great Merchants that leave for trade missions to get gold, which fuels deficit research. Hammers are not a problem, because one can whip almost anything useful.

IMO, archipelago maps are perfect for Diplomatic victory. Warring is not that profitable, but a strong navy is a must.

[MensSana]

I am at the moment playing a multiplayer archie map, and it goes quite well.
Although the problem I am in at the moment is, that colossus gives me a great benefit with +1 gold for every coastal tile, BUT in order to expand I must beeline to astronomy, which will obsolete colossus. :-(
As the moment I am pursuing a strategy of using the colossus bonus to get as many tech as possible before going for astronomy. But with monty knocking on my door....Soon I must invade him, and get astronomy

[LordRahl]

I played archipelago a few times (vanila civ), and believe Washington is perfect for that type. You get financial - which means extra money from all that water. You get Navy Seals, which again are perfect, because 90% of enemy cities are coastal, and you'll also find a few single-tiled ones. And finally organized doesn't hurt either, since you'll be spread all over.

[InvisibleStalke]

Hannibal and Ragnar are both perfect for island maps. Financial really shines since you will be working a lot of sea tiles and financial effectively gets +50% commerce.

[obo_bb]

I propose archipelago maps but with option snaky continents, landmasses are not so divided on many islands. Then quite ofen we have word divided on 3,4 groups (each with 2-4) civilizations and few alone.. It creates interesting situation, in my opinion. BTW I also add few more civilizations to make more fun I play emperor difficulty.