NGC:Comeback Game, Stalin

[Sryth]

Hello everyone. If we can all take a bit to rememebr back to our previous Noble Game Challenge, we all know it didn't turn out so well. First off, I'm sorry for the lack of updates on that game. My internet was down for a few days, got caught up in finals week and problems with my girlfreind. However, thats all taken care of.

Instead of starting back up on that horrible Washington game, I have decided on a fresh new start with a new Noble Game Challenge. Taking the advice of the previous game, I will do my best to provide as much information as I can, and also explain some mechanics of the game that some of the lower level players may not know(thats why it's a noble game).

After getting a few PM's regarding a leader for our new game, I have decided to use Stalin, leader of the Russian empire. The reason for this choice is that Stalin is the most flexible leader of the Russians. With the Aggresive and Industrious traits, what do you go for? Pure military might? A builder in order to grab all of those new wonders? The choice lies with all of us .

Of course, before we can start it, lets talk about possible victory choices for Stalin. With his Agressive Trait, a strong military can help us greatly for a conquest or domination victory. Then again, with our later Unique building, the Research Institute, a possible space race might just be within our grasp.

So fellow civers, can we get this NGC kick started again and show that Stalin can be used in both possible ways?

[ParadigmShifter]

Never played Stalin so sounds interesting. My only gripe from the last NGC was that you went from, "OK here we are building catapults" to "And now we have conquered 2 civs" or that's what it felt like from the write-up. But I appreciate the time it takes and real-life issues etc. Maybe you need to pace things a little slower. Don't treat this as your current game, more of an occasional hobby game in which you have some interest. My 2p anyway. Good work though.

[Sryth]

Thanks, I know that with the last game I suddenly rushed through from catapults to war. I am very sorry for that, I'll be sure to not let it happen again.
I'll also be sure to take this a bit slower and explain the pros and cons to researching certain techs, and other diplomatic issues that we could all discuss.

I'll be sure to make this a great game for everyone

[ParadigmShifter]

Good stuff, I'll definitely chip in but by the time I was going to it was all over.

Aggressive, it could be all over by the middle ages. Maybe you should demonstrate an early Oracle (2nd city) - Code of Laws for early large empire through conquest aiming for domination or tech away while remaining relatively peaceful while working towards a space race? Either of those should work on Noble.

[ParadigmShifter]

Additional: I think the key things you need to address with the readers before going to beat up on the enemy are:

1) Are we strong enough to attack (my common failing when I played Noble)
2) When to stop attacking and extort stuff for peace
3) How much defence do we need before moving our army abroad. Do we need archery, etc. or will a couple of axes do the job? Can we skip parts of the tech tree to get an attacking advantage, in other words.

[Hackapell]

All right! Good to se you back in the saddle, Sryth.

Don't forget to mention stalin's starting tech, UU, and UB. Stalin starts out with hunting and mining, meaning archers and the 'mids are just a hop, skip, and a jump away. The Oracle-Col slingshot is an excellent one in order to found a religion and grab courthouses. I don't agree that we can win in the medival ages; the longbowman simply are too persistent to overcome without about 10 cats. Stalin, however, gets the cossack as a UU. Even though it got nerfed in warlords, it's still powerful, so it can help punch through if you beeline to MT. Therefore, music will be a priority as well as a prereq. There fore, I reccomend starting an HE and, directly after oracle-CoL and 'mids, planning on conquering the world by late renaissance-Early industrial.

[Killroyan]

Get the show on the road. Good luck in advance.

[ParadigmShifter]

If all out aggression is the plan I'd say the game could be won with cats and maces, depends upon map settings though. Continents might be a good idea so the game isn't all over before your UU gets to make an appearance.

[Sryth]

We can start the game later. The map settings will be Noble, Epic, Fractal(more fun IMO) Standard Size.

As said before by Hackapell, we might not be able to crush everyone by the medieval ages, however with a good start, by that time we can have wiped off at least 2 others. The Russian UU, the cossack, is a very powerful unit. At some point in the game, we will have to get Horse back riding. We can always just trade for this later on in game. Music is also important, as it is a prereq to Military Tradition. If were lucky, we might be able to get music first for a free Great Artist(probably won't happen, but you never know)

Also, since Stalin has the Industrious trait, going for the oracle for CoL can be very helpful. A Religon and courthouses are always a plus. The courthouses can be used in the cities we conquer using our Aggresive trait.

[Hackapell]

I find that during the renaissance is when attacks pick up steam and annihalate the enemy, so two civs by approx. 1400 sounds like a plan, with the rest of the world to follow.
CE or SE? that will probably become the question of the week during play. If you want to conquer early and end by about 1750, SE/FE will probably be our economy of choice, Since CE without finacial tends to lag until LIberalism/Democracy.

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm not a big fan of HBR until it is really needed. I just pick it up before guilds or MT if I need a bit of a booster horse wise. If you get near to MT it only takes a couple of turns to research anyway. Chariots are more useful than horse archers in Warlords. I'd rather get a more useful tech which always seems to be something like drama (combat unhappiness), engineering (gotta love the extra road movement), or a naval tech or something.

[Hackapell]

keep in mind that HBR in walords allows stables, which add 2 XP's to all muonted units, along with the barracks. Thus, HBR is actually somewhat more useful than in vanilla, since you don't have to quickly waste turns building stables later on when you should be building units.

Please get the show on the road soon!

[Sryth]

The time for us to start has come upon us..... This will be played with the latest patch for Warlords



Our settings and other goodies..



Before anyone states it: Yes, I am using single unit graphics(cuts down on loading time for multiplayer games)
Anyways, what a start we have here!

3 Gems and 3 sugars. We wont be able to take advantage of the sugars until we have calendar. However, we have 3 gems just crying to be used! Lucky for us, Stalin starts with mining. Hooking up those gems quickly could get us an early tech lead. Stalin also starts with Hunting, so we start with a scout instead of a warrior.

Where to place our first city? I suggest that we settle 1 spot N of the settler and settle in the forest. I would also move our scout 1 N to the hill and see what we could possibly find. Well ladies and gentleman, it has begun!

[ParadigmShifter]

Holy Moley that's a good start. If you put the city on the forest, you lose the 0.5 health and ability to chop it later, plus you get 2 extra jungles. I say settle in place. I'd also move the scout SW first to see if there are any other advantages to settling in place. Of course, in place is 1 tile away from the coast which isn't great. It's debatable.

So Stalin starts with mining? If so I'd get a worker out ASAP, first build to get the gems.

[Hackapell]

WOW, WHAT AN AWESOME START!!!!

I seriously envy you. that is going to make one heck of a good commerce city. otherwise, your plan sounds fine. start with a worker, then barracks, then scout, then settler.

[ParadigmShifter]

A barracks before a scout? I'd only build a barracks if I wanted some decent attacking units. At least scouts can run away and they're only going to face animals at the start.

I say: worker, warrior, warrior (until reaches pop 2), worker or settler, depending on whether there is a good city site spotted nearby.

What are you going to tech first? Bronze Working?

[Cabledawg]

Once you get out that second city by whipping a settler, dont whip again....why?...Because once youre working all 3 gems, youll out research everyone. If there was ever a case for a Civil Service slingshot, this is it. Get your basic techs out of the way, research to priesthood with a possible stop to Mono. Theres no way youll get beat to mono. Free religion and a 25% production boost. Get Writing, Math, and COL...time Code of laws to finish before or on the same turn as oracle. Take Civil Service and the game is well in hand.

Going for Mono and getting the sling is a lil iffy, so if you take out mono, the CS sling is easier.

[Water2Funk]

Originally Posted by Hackapell

WOW, WHAT AN AWESOME START!!!!

Only in Noble...

[kniteowl]

A sugar without an improvement gives you 3 food, since it's near a river you can farm it and it'll provide 4 food, their like floodplains without the unhealthiness.

How I'd play as Stalin is, Oracle Slingshot to Metal Casting for those cheap Forges and whip/build forges quickly and amass an army and go conquering. All units and buildings can be produced quicker with forges in those cities.

[vormuir]

Awesome start.

I would not move. As Paradigmshifter says, moving north sticks you with jungle and a low-value plains hill tile without giving you much in compensation. Your current location is good-to-excellent... the only drawback I see is that it's not a port, but that's not a big deal.

Early Worker, definitely. Tastes vary, but I would suggest a second Scout (to grab an extra hut or two, and explore faster) followed by a Worker once the city has grown to size 2.

Tech: you need Agriculture to farm that sugar, so this should be an early priority, either your first or second tech. Later you will need the Wheel to hook up the sugar and gems, but you won't need the health and happiness bonuses for many centuries yet, so this is not a high priority. (And after Calendar you'll plow over the farms to build plantations, but that's a long way off yet.)

Mining gives you a head start on Bronze Working, the best tech in the early game. This should be an early priority, because it unlocks so many options -- chopping, whipping, Axemen and Spearmen. Most of all it shows you where the Copper is, so you can grab it before all rivals.

So, I would say Agriculture for your first tech, followed by BW.

Note that this means you are giving up on early religion. I think this makes sense playing Stalin. Still, there is a slight risk -- we must hope that a neighbor founds an early religion for us.

If yes, then great; we either wait for it to spread peacefully, or go and take their Holy City. If no neighbor founds a religion, then Oracle slingshot to Code of Laws for sure. The nearby Gems make this decision easier -- you won't have to worry about happiness for a while, so you won't need a religion quite so soon.

Watching with interest,


Waldo