GP and research

[Mithrus]

Would it be possible to allow more control over which tech is researched when burning a GP for tech? Perhaps give a list like when you get a free tech from the various wonders?

[MagisterCultuum]

I would like that too, but perhaps the list should be less complete, since each type great person should offer a tech within their area of expertise (religious for prophets, trade for merchants, arcane for sages, etc.)

Also, could the amount of research/production gained by sacrificing a savant/soldier of Kilmorph be increased? +10 isn't very useful late in the game, especially compared to the culture boost a new city gains from other disciples. I would personally like the amount to be based on the level of the unit.

[Polycrates]

That would be INCREDIBLY overpowered if you could do that. Great people-based strategies are already significantly more powerful than in vanilla because they're easier to generate en masse (mostly because of all the extra food) and they can give extra powerful effects (like the altar). Being forced to take a specific tech is the one really balancing thing about them (and a large part of what differentiates the different types).

To give you some idea, each great sage is worth about 1500RP, which is absolutely massive. A single sage specialist generating 3GPPs a turn towards the first great person is effectively generating up to an extra FORTY-FIVE research points a turn (assuming of course that it's spent on a tech that's around that cost).
Even averaged over the first five great people, you're looking at about 9RP a turn per specialist (in addition to the three points of normal research that the specialist is already doing). And that's not even counting Philosophical either. You also get this particularly in the early game, where that amount of research is disproportionately huge.
If you could direct your lightbulbing, other strategies would lose their viability in comparison, and that would be no fun at all.

[xAlephx]

Although it's difficult to trade in your first GP for the full research in a timely fashion.

Is there any master list of the GP tech bulb options? I've gotten a handle on sages through lots of use, but I'd like to have a complete set so as to know who to try to produce when.

[xanaqui42]

Originally Posted by xAlephx

Although it's difficult to trade in your first GP for the full research in a timely fashion.

Is there any master list of the GP tech bulb options? I've gotten a handle on sages through lots of use, but I'd like to have a complete set so as to know who to try to produce when.

Great Sage:
Alchemy (10)
Alteration (10)
Animal Husbandry (2)
Arcane Lore (10)
Archery (2)
Astronomy (7)
Blasting Powder (4)
Bowyers (4)
Bronze Working (4)
Cartography (8)
Construction (2)
Corruption of Spirit (2)
Divination (4)
Domesticate Camels (1)
Domesticate Elephants (1)
Drama (2)
Education (9)
Elementalism (10)
Engineering (5)
Ethereal Call (10)
Exploration (1)
Fishing (3)
Future Tech (1)
Honor (2)
Horseback Riding (1)
Hunting (2)
Infernal Pact (2)
Iron Working (5)
Knowledge of the Ether (10)
Lames (5)
Machinery (4)
Masonry (4)
Mathematics (8)
Medicine (6)
Metal Casting (5)
Mind Stapling (1)
Mining (3)
Necromancy (8)
Omniscience (7)
Optics (8)
Pass through the Ether (10)
Philosophy (3)
Religious Law (1)
Sailing (6)
Sanitation (3)
Sorcery (10)
Soul Debt (9)
Strength of Will (10)
Summoning (10)
Theology (2)
Tracking (4)
Warfare (4)
Way of the Wicked (4)
Writing (10)

I should probably fill out the set, and put it into the wiki in one format or another.

It's here. I'll try to fill out the rest of the great people by the end of the week.

Great Bard is done.

Great Engineer is done.

Great Merchant is done.

Great Prophet is done.

[Mithrus]

Originally Posted by Polycrates

If you could direct your lightbulbing, other strategies would lose their viability in comparison, and that would be no fun at all.

While I agree with your sentiment that burning GP for tech is overpowered at present, I disagree with your connection with the lack of decision being some sort of "balance".

What I would like to see is the overall bonus research gained to be lowered (assuming 1500 is the current, then lower it to about 1200), or change the mechanic to have the bonus tied directly to the number of GPP used to create the GP, subject to balancing. Perhaps you can store the GPP used as experience for the unit for reference? In addition, create a list of techs to choose from similar to the wonders, but limited to the techs appropriate to the GP (this is what I meant when I said "like" in my first post).

[xAlephx]

Thank you for the list.

[xanaqui42]

The lists for all the great people (above) are complete.

[onedreamer]

thanks xanaqui, great work !

[much2much]

Originally Posted by Mithrus

While I agree with your sentiment that burning GP for tech is overpowered at present, I disagree with your connection with the lack of decision being some sort of "balance".

Hear hear.

Excellent point.

Seeing how everybody can do it I don't think its overpowered except if you have Philosophical trait it could be.

The more numbers we can get in these discussions the better great people can be balanced against each other so all are worthy.

[much2much]

Heres two implementation ideas for the devs if they are considering changing the bulbing method:

Maybe to cut down interface options only allow great people to bulb the highest priority techs but when they bulb it contributes to the actively being researched tech if it fits this category. Otherwise bulbing is greyed out.

Another one is maybe cut the whole list down so great people only have two techs at each priority option. You aren't going to bulb mining.

[Grey Fox]

It would be nice if the bulb amount carried over to the next tech (if there is any over). But maybe that's too exploitable.

[much2much]

Originally Posted by Grey Fox

It would be nice if the bulb amount carried over to the next tech (if there is any over). But maybe that's too exploitable.

When you are bulbing early sure but by the time you get to for example alteration isn't bulbing exactly the tech anyway? You have to decide if you want to waste half your bulbing ability to get KOTE fast.

[Grey Fox]

Originally Posted by much2much

When you are bulbing early sure but by the time you get to for example alteration isn't bulbing exactly the tech anyway? You have to decide if you want to waste half your bulbing ability to get KOTE fast.

Well, any tech that is finished by the bulbing in 1 turn might cost less than you get, I don't know how much it gives.

But starting at the techs after Alteration and Elementalism, they start to cost more than bulbing gives.

But if that's the case I guess its fine. I tend to use the first sage for an academy, 2nd as great sage, 3rd as another great sage or for Alteration.