1st to Liberalism... now what?

[CapnKill]

I hear this a lot... get Liberalism first and you won the game.... but.. I don't know why. Which tech should I chose? I chose.. nationalism.. I think.. is that one? I heard it mentioned the most. I don't know why I chose that... why did I chose that?

[ChicagoCubs]

I go for Nationalism so I can draft units. If you put the Globe Theatre (not unhappiness) in a good food production location, you can draft every turn and build that population right back.

[Lord Chambers]

Because now you can trade it for techs you've neglected to research, and draft units, while also heading for a)Universal sufferage to cash-rush yourself into a tech lead, b)Representation and the Statue of Liberty to continue your futile attempts at specialist-based research, c)Military Tradition to expand your empire.

Nationalism, or other techs you might snag with Liberalism, often represent decision point in your game where you decide your likely victory path and begin to drive towards it.

[CapnKill]

Originally Posted by Lord Chambers

Because now you can trade it for techs you've neglected to research, and draft units, while also heading for a)Universal sufferage to cash-rush yourself into a tech lead, b)Representation and the Statue of Liberty to continue your futile attempts at specialist-based research, c)Military Tradition to expand your empire.

Nationalism, or other techs you might snag with Liberalism, often represent decision point in your game where you decide your likely victory path and begin to drive towards it.

I guess this is the part I'm not grasping very well... Which would be good for a nice sound ass whopin?... Space race is boring to me, but is enabled... so if I want a conquest victory what path should I have chosen?

Didn't think about the globe theater that way, so you build it in a good food town and just draft away?... interesting. What do you consider a good food town?...

[r_rolo1]

Originally Posted by CapnKill

Didn't think about the globe theater that way, so you build it in a good food town and just draft away?... interesting. What do you consider a good food town?...

The ideal drafting city needs to have enough food to grow from size 6 ( the minimum remaining pop allowed for drafting) to 7 in one turn ( i'm suposing that you're drafting up to rifles ( cost 1 pop to draft)). Probably you'll need a city with 2 or 3 high food resourses, like some coastal spots.

[mice]

If you want to go domination, a good tech to take is Chemistry or better still steel. Then you upgrade your maces to grens . You can even turn off tech at steel and use all the gold for upgrades and culture while you burn burn burn.

If you set up a food heavy empire you're better going Nationalism for Nationhood to draft.

It all depends on how well you've set your empire for the victory condition and the map set up in each case. The free tech from Liberalism is a key part to it, but still is only a part.


I personally think Liberalism is over-rated and a lot of it's attraction is the techs you pick up on the route, which are all good and trade bait.

On a water map, the best tech to take can be Astronomy because it opens trade routes and you can build Galleons ahead of everyone to jump a neighbor over the sea.

One more point, a Great Merchant can net you around 2000 gold which can easily turn into 2200 beakers, about the same as the free tech would give you. The gold at the right time and a bunch of knights which you got by going Guilds instead of Paper can clinch the victory by taking the best land or breaking the biggest threat.

[CapnKill]

Originally Posted by mice

If you want to go domination, a good tech to take is Chemistry or better still steel. Then you upgrade your maces to grens . You can even turn off tech at steel and use all the gold for upgrades and culture while you burn burn burn.

If you set up a food heavy empire you're better going Nationalism for Nationhood to draft.

It all depends on how well you've set your empire for the victory condition and the map set up in each case. The free tech from Liberalism is a key part to it, but still is only a part.


I personally think Liberalism is over-rated and a lot of it's attraction is the techs you pick up on the route, which are all good and trade bait.

On a water map, the best tech to take can be Astronomy because it opens trade routes and you can build Galleons ahead of everyone to jump a neighbor over the sea.

One more point, a Great Merchant can net you around 2000 gold which can easily turn into 2200 beakers, about the same as the free tech would give you. The gold at the right time and a bunch of knights which you got by going Guilds instead of Paper can clinch the victory by taking the best land or breaking the biggest threat.

I did take out the Japanese... and they had the Pyramids, I think that gave me Nationhood right? I'm not sure what I'm using right now... I'll have to check.

[r_rolo1]

No, Nationalism can't be achieved by the mids ( it's in the second column)

[svv]

I don't typically have chemistry or steel available when I get liberalism - but I'll often take gunpowder and target chemistry and steel for my next research.

Is it possible to hold off on liberalism until after you get gunpowder and chemistry so you can use it on steel? Even if that doesn't break a prerequisite, it seems like it'd be tough to put off liberalism until after gunpowder and chemistry, and still expect to get liberalism first.

[CapnKill]

Originally Posted by r_rolo1

No, Nationalism can't be achieved by the mids ( it's in the second column)

Ah ok... I will try drafting (when I get it) w/ the theatre when I get a chance, should be fun.

[r_rolo1]

In noble is acheivable. Above that it seems hard.

EDIT: Cross post

[CapnKill]

Originally Posted by r_rolo1

In noble is acheivable. Above that it seems hard.

EDIT: Cross post

Thats what this is, "Noble"... my first Noble game actually.

[mice]

About getting Steel from Liberalism, it can be done on Prince, see the Loom of the Land SG in my sig. We were a bit lucky, but Chem. is certainly doable.

About Nationhood draft, Capnkill, definitely try it. Also read Vale's drafting for fun and profit thread in the strategy articles.

Big food city, Globe, Nationhood from Nationalism.

[mice]

double post.

[futurehermit]

Liberalism first then either cavalry (gunpowder + mil tradition) or grens (chemistry) to clear your continent of its former inhabitants.

Then pursue either space race (small continent) or domination (large continent or pangaea) victory.

[JackOfClubs]

Originally Posted by r_rolo1

The ideal drafting city needs to have enough food to grow from size 6 ( the minimum remaining pop allowed for drafting) to 7 in one turn ( i'm suposing that you're drafting up to rifles ( cost 1 pop to draft)). Probably you'll need a city with 2 or 3 high food resourses, like some coastal spots.

You essentially need a 16 food surplus. Pre-Biology (which you probably will be for awhile after getting Liberalism->Nationalism) you can achieve this with 3 High Food Tiles (Wheat or Corn should be 2 of them but the 3rd can be Rice) and Grassland Farms on the other 3 tiles. Post-Biology, you can do it with a single Rice paddy and Grassland Farms on all 5 other squares, provided they are all irrigated. ("Irrigated" means they are directly next to a fresh water source or next to a tile that is itself irrigated if you have Civil Service). All of this assumes you have a Granary in the city.

You can actually achieve 1 pop growth/turn in a city with no food resources Post-Biology but you need a higher population. A pop 8 city will grow to pop 9 in one turn if all 8 tiles are irrigated Grassland farms. This seems counter-intuitive but remember that each farm actually increases the food surplus by 2 Post-Biology, so the more population, the faster you grow.

[r_rolo1]

@ JackOfClubs

I was thinking ( based in my previous experience) on using double fish + clam/crab city,lighthouse and granary(I had a roman game when I captured early Brennus capitol, a real drafting central( 2 fish, 1 clam, 1 wheat, 1 lake ). Prior to Nationalism it was a central ( did most of my preats) and the globe was whipped too (using overflows) ) . But I was talking ideally, and your 8 Grassland farms is more reproductible.

[Vulcans]

it depends on victory condition.
if you want to war then nationhood, worth hte most beakers on the path to MT, then you just need to self research gunpowder and MT, while trading libralism around. (at empror i wouldent put off libralism to get chemistry)

if you are peaceful then astronamy can be good, it is worth the most beakers, and those observatorys rreally help your research, boosting research pace, which can pay off in the long run

[cabert]

My favourite liberalism free techs :
- nationalism (it's on the best economic path : democracy FTW)
- astronomy (already mentionned, but it's really powerful on the economic side too, so always a good choice)
- printed press (immediate economic boost for a CE, + on the path to rifling)
- economics (good for a total civic change in one go, + a free great merchant)
- Divine right (yes I do this sometimes, when I want another religion )
- military tradition (it means you research nationalism before liberalism. It's not the deepest slingshot ever, but it pays off quite good with Russia.)
- Biology or (easier) physics. On low levels you can slingshot rather deep. It's easier with philosophical leaders, running a large SE and lightbulbing the way up to scientific method.

[futurehermit]

printing press is a waste imho. easily lightbulbable.