BTS FALLACY - Abraham Lincoln has NEVER ruled America!

[Gaius Octavius]

Abraham Lincoln was the ruler of the Union during the American Civil War, popularly called “The North” in the United States today. He was elected President in 1860 but before he could take office, several Southern states seceded from America, forming their own nation, called the Confederate States of America. The map below illustrates this. Blue states represent the North, red states are the South.



It is completely disrespectful to Southerners and totally anti-historical to consider Lincoln the ruler of “America.” At best, he ruled over maybe half of the country, and was by no means the recognized leader of the conquered Southern states, and therefore all of America. You cannot consider a man the leader of a whole nation when he only held sway over maybe half of it at a given time. This is further complicated by the fact that many in the North also opposed Lincoln at various intervals, including a group of ardent anti-slavery Northerners who themselves threatened to secede.

His reelection in 1864 is historically a singular event, in that while Lincoln was reelected he was chosen only by those states which remained in the Union. Half of the country did not even cast votes, making the outcome slippery from a legal perspective, at best.

So now, the question Firaxis should ask itself is:
What could we do when we make such an awful ridiculous fallacy that will make laugh the whole world and we realize it so close to the game release?

There are only three choices:

• Change the name of the leader (Jefferson Davis, Andrew Johnson or even George W. Bush being a more obvious representative of the country as a whole)
• Change the name of the civ (probably Union or Damn Yankees).
• Remove the whole civ or keep it strictly for a scenario.

I’m sorry, but I’m an American and a Southerner, and I can tell you that it does matter for me to see all of a sudden Abraham Lincoln being forced into the history of my region. Lincoln, though an American, does not represent America as a whole and should not be in the game! He was a UNION leader, not an AMERICAN one!

Spoiler:

Okay, guys, this is obviously a joke. (No disrespect to Marla Singer intended.) I am actually quite pleased Lincoln has returned despite controversy by some less-enthusiastic members. Let's use this thread to discuss him and his traits--I'm thinking that with Philosophical, he might turn out to be a reasonable SE leader. Charismatic also allows for early expansion and warring, meaning America could easily take the lead once it gets a solid base. What say you?

[TheLastOne36]

WOW you of all people would make a spam topic?

Why i'm ashamed Octavius.

[Gaius Octavius]

This is not spam. I want to have a serious discussion about Lincoln's traits and possible strategy. The first part is simply a joke.

Here's what I'm thinking:

With Charismatic, Axe-rush your nearest neighbor to get lots of land. If you can pull off the Parthenon his philosophical trait will be greatly enhanced, and if your capital happens to be on flood plains all the better.

The only problem is, as always, the American UU and UB come very late in the game. While this might make it hard for certain victories, if you play your cards right it pretty much guarantees a space race victory.

[TobyWanKenobi]

I actually found it quite funny, it'll be interesting to see how many people get angry at this.

[Gaius Octavius]

My intent is not to make people angry. My point is to say that instead of complaining about who is/is not in the game, we should start thinking about what we can do with them and analyzing them. It's obvious Pericles is going to be good for Cultural wins; Maya's traits are well-suited for a peaceful building strategy. Where does Lincoln fit in?

[scy12]

I will say Lincoln is quite good for an SE with plenty of Wars. Like Alexander. Only he has one +1 Happy for bigger cities and his initial rush may need more units than usual. It is a good trait synergy.

[Monkeyfinger]

Originally Posted by Gaius Octavius

Maya's traits are well-suited for a peaceful building strategy.

i lol'd at this

[Gaius Octavius]

Well, after the genocide, of course.

I should've been more specific... Expansive, Financial are good for a builder. Granted, their UU is geared for an early rush, but after the war is over you can pretty much dominate the tech race. It's not like, say, Rome or Aztecs, where everything is pretty much geared toward conquest. You have options.

[TheLastOne36]

Originally Posted by Gaius Octavius

Well, after the genocide, of course.

I should've been more specific... Expansive, Financial are good for a builder. Granted, their UU is geared for an early rush, but after the war is over you can pretty much dominate the tech race. It's not like, say, Rome or Aztecs, where everything is pretty much geared toward conquest. You have options.

I like to agree with Octavius. It's the safest choice. lol

[Rusty Edge]

I think Lincoln would be a favorite among those who want a modern start.
That way the UU works in his favor, while most civs UUs will be obsolete.

[Ball Lightning]

I'm looking forward to playing him.

[injeKT]

Well, if you want, you could petition for a Jefferson Davis leader. Once you adopt slavery, though, you can't ever change civics.

[sourboy]

It was Civil war dude, Lincoln was the president, the south was just a rebellion in the end...

Poland > HRE

[Gaius Octavius]

Evidently people do not read the spoiler in the first post.

[sourboy]

Originally Posted by Gaius Octavius

Evidently people do not read the spoiler in the first post.

aww come on, we can't play along and joke right back?

[dh_epic]

LOL you had me going for a second.

Lincoln, Roosevelt and Washington are probably America's 3 most influential leaders. Maybe followed closely by Teddy Roosevelt.

[Gaius Octavius]

Originally Posted by sourboy

aww come on, we can't play along and joke right back?

Yes, of course. I should've put a [wink] smiley in the other post, or a one.

The irony is I've seen serious posts in CivFanatics about why Lincoln should NOT be in. Like this one: http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/s...84&postcount=3

[cybrxkhan]

like i said on Washington, Lincoln may have been the cheapest, filthiest, stupidest, evilest, sinfulest, pho-hatingest, dirtbag ever, but he still is representative of... er... of the "national ideals" of America.

[TheLastOne36]

You brought up pho again.

POWER TO KIELBASA

Hey i have more posts then u cybrxkhan

[cybrxkhan]

Hey i have more posts then u cybrxkhan

yea, i know, ive been busy and will be busy for a while, so i cant go on as much. good luck, Khan of Kielbasa.. perhaps someday i'll catch up to you.

actually, the only reason i object to Lincoln (and De Gaulle) is that Firaxis put a third leader for another Western civ, instead of something like China or India. oh well, at least they recognized SE Asia exists. Pho, HERE WE COME!!!