Considered a Villian By the World?!?!

[PyroMancer]

Okie what is this BS? I just got BTS expansion today and I was doing quite well. Until I noticed the unhappiness of my people was sky rocking and so I checked why. I had some strange new +Unhappiness modifier called "World considers you a villain" And it kept raising up to +15 where it is now?!? This completely ruined my game as even with all the +happiness buildings built I still can't support cities much higher then like 6-7 people. It cripple my economy and I've lost well over half my pop. I'm considering restarting cause I went from the top empire to like 5th.

My question is what the heck is this STUPID modifier coming from? I normally play a rather peaceful game and go for space race victory or sometimes the Diplomacy Victory. But this time around I was being a bit more aggressive and I wiped out the French which is about when I think it happened. I've seen the AI wipe out tons of other civs in the past and they never seem to have a problem maintaining their population happiness afterward so not sure if that's where it's coming from.

The only other thing is the great new opition to flatout refuse to go along with a UN vote which I think is great cause I always thought Enviormentalism was a DUMB civic to have but stupid UN always forced me to when I wanted to keep free trade. Well that vote also came up the last turn before I wiped out the French and so I was like heck no I'm not changing civics you idoits and selected the new Never(Defy Resolution) option.

I was wondering where what was it I did that caused that to show up cause either way it's STUPID. If it's the warmongering and wiping out another Civ it's like you think the Roman people cared that the rest of the world hated them and were unhappy?? Umm NO! And as for the UN thing it's totally different then the real UN cause in real UN it has to be unanimous not a simple majority vote. And UN doesn't pass laws telling other countries how to run themselves like think cold war. You think the US would of cared had the UN gone you must become Socialist. Or that Russia would have accepted it had the UN told them to convert to Capitalism.

Anyhow any feed back on this would be very helpful.

[Drawmeus]

The penalty is a penalty for defying the resolution.

And yes, the UN is a game-ism. Most things in Civ are. That's because it's a game and not a history simulator.

[TheLastOne36]

Maybe an Enemy spy used Foment Unhappiness on you?

[largedarryl]

I think Drawmeus is right. That is the most likely the unhappiness modifier for defying a UN resolution. It slowly increases with time if you continue to defy the resolution.

[guyb]

Saddam Hussein invaded his neighour and was in breach of various UN resolutions too.

Look at what that did for his PR!

[PyroMancer]

Originally Posted by largedarryl

I think Drawmeus is right. That is the most likely the unhappiness modifier for defying a UN resolution. It slowly increases with time if you continue to defy the resolution.

Well yea that's just dumb cause I've defied several votes in the past and it didn't show up. How are you suppose to KNOW which thing you defied?!? And I don't think complying works. I changed my civics to all the ones the UN would of voted for and still no change the world considers me a villain even after several turns. The biggest reason it's dumb is it doesn't tell you where it's coming from how how to stop it. The only other comparable hit to unhappiness is warweariness for being at war for a long long time but that you know where it's coming from and easy enough to correct unless your getting hammered by AI who won't agree to peace (that always sucks).


Also I understand that just it is a game-ism and not a history sim. But in a small way it is trying to be a history sim so how about instead of your people becoming unhappy which I think is DUMB a more realistic and accurate way is if the world does consider you a "villain" that your relations have negative modifiers instead that would make a LOT more sense.

[Quagga]

But, do you think it is dumb?

[IAM]

Is there more of an unhappiness penalty if the vote for a particular UN rule was unanimous except for you?

"When I come back no more Mr. Nice Guy." Adolf Hitler

[Sealot]

It's actually a wise thing to put unhappiness on refusing those UN elections.. What's the point of having them if everyone can just refuse with no penalties.

[largedarryl]

Originally Posted by Sealot

It's actually a wise thing to put unhappiness on refusing those UN elections.. What's the point of having them if everyone can just refuse with no penalties.

Because then it would be like the real UN

[dh_epic]

People finally got their wish and players can finally defy UN resolutions.

Funny, they're still not happy. That's because it's not very realistic for anybody to give a crap what civics you're running. So why have all kinds of diplomatic and happiness penalties?

Because without the penalties, the UN is useless. It would be a bunch of voting buttons that do nothing. That might even be realistic. But it would do nothing.

The real answer? Get rid of the UN. It's a useless, stupid feature. It adds nothing to the game. Either that, or redesign diplomacy from scratch.

[Tanktunker]

Originally Posted by dh_epic

That's because it's not very realistic for anybody to give a crap what civics you're running.

Exactly!
No country or leader has ever objected to the fashion in which another leader has run his nation, ever.
Especially not in concerns with fascism or communism.
Nope.

[Danielos]

Instead of a unhappiness penalty in your own cities, you should receive a diplomatic attitude adjustment vs the civs you voted with:

If you voted against them:

-2 You voted against us, villain!

If you voted same as them:

+2 we share the same beliefs in our votes

[PyroMancer]

Originally Posted by dh_epic

People finally got their wish and players can finally defy UN resolutions.

Funny, they're still not happy. That's because it's not very realistic for anybody to give a crap what civics you're running. So why have all kinds of diplomatic and happiness penalties?

Because without the penalties, the UN is useless. It would be a bunch of voting buttons that do nothing. That might even be realistic. But it would do nothing.

The real answer? Get rid of the UN. It's a useless, stupid feature. It adds nothing to the game. Either that, or redesign diplomacy from scratch.

The UN is stupid both in RL and game. But that's beside the point. Anyhow there are no DIPLOMATIC penalties that I've seen for defying the vote. There is only the happiness one from what I can tell which is what I'm saying it the STUPID part. And a +15 unhappiness?!? That's like 2 esp hits on all your cities continuously that's a bit more then a penalty that's crippling you might as well never defy them with that kinda penalty. War takes a lot longer to have that kinda penalty hit and is usually easy to correct, just make peace.

I'm not saying their shouldn't be a penalty I'm saying it should be a DIPLOMATIC one. Defying the vote should lower your standings with the other civs not cause your people to riot which is stupid cause if anything a culture being forced to change against it's will would cause more rioting then refusing to bow to some outside dictator's demands.

[_alphaBeta_]

I don't have an answer, but this is related to something with civ4 that I've never agreed with. The happiness modifiers all have stupid names. Things like "we just feel happy" and similar is not helpful at all. It should at least say in parenthesis what is causing it (resources, troops in city, civics etc.)

[s0ulst0rms]

i've thought about having a diplomatic penalty before too, but it'd be useless in human multiplayer.

[Pomp]

Originally Posted by PyroMancer

Defying the vote should...not cause your people to riot which is stupid cause if anything a culture being forced to change against it's will would cause more rioting then refusing to bow to some outside dictator's demands.

Well, I've participated in a couple marches to protest my government's refusal to play nicely by the rules of the international game. That's not quite rioting, but it's unhappiness.

[Gaius Octavius]

The unhappiness penalty works on a system of diminishing returns. Once you hit future tech, unhappiness is a thing of the past. Either you keep researching (for +1 in all cities) or set your culture to a very high level. Either way, the UN penalties are temporary and feeble at best. It could make a difference in the space race, though.

[dh_epic]

I suspect that Firaxis tried a diplomatic penalty and quickly discovered that some players will defy every last vote. Diplomatic penalties are not enough.

Hence the happiness penalty. It was the only way to make players thoughtfully weigh whether it's worth it to defy or not. Now that the happiness penalties are high, you'll think twice about defying. You'll only do it when absolutely necessary.

Realistic that your people care about the UN? Probably not. But like I said, the most realistic UN would probably be a bunch of resolutions that don't actually do anything. If you went with that, you might as well not implement a UN at all.

[jackdog]

Does any one know the mechanics of the penalty as it can start very early. I don't have the apolistic palace and the other 4 civs on my large continent are a lrage religious block and started voting to return the cities I had won one by one to their 'rightfull owners'. I defies at city three and have a 5 unhapiness penalty now, managable but a pain. this is very recent in my game. Will it go up slowly....

if you wipe out the Civ you have cities from I am presuming they can no longer vote to return them? or can they!!!

How can you redeem yourself. In my situation for instance can I get the last 2 cities of the guy I am hammering then will the penalty stop, will it take 10 turns, will I still be a villan. Will I have to stop war then covert the the blocks religion away from the free religion I am in as I built the any religion civic thing early.

I don't think complaining about the penaty helps, the game has rules, fair or otherwise, learn them, get over them, use them to your advantage and get back to winning. I do think however all the info to understand the rules is needed or it is unfair, and these 'rules' seem to be hard to come by.

Can someone here give a brief info on how the penalty works lasts etc. I am on Noble (1st game to see) continents normal map size and speed.

INFO PLEASE.