LK132 - BTS, monarch, Bablyon

[Sweetacshon]

Whoa! You take the weekend off, and look what happens! I've got it, but won't play til tonight probably, after I get a chance to study the save.

[NoChildren]

when you defy the AP you get 5 x in all cities that holds that religion just like Azaris said.

[angeleyes]

Originally Posted by NoChildren

when you defy the AP you get 5 x in all cities that holds that religion just like Azaris said.

You also lose your reward of +2 hammers for the religious buildings you have build belonging to the AP religion (but this feature is broken: in stead of losing those hammers you get -2 hammers from those building so you can end up with a negative amount of hammers....).

[Sweetacshon]

I take it that's a no to the revert to Hindu idea, then?

I have run out of time tonight, but had a look at the save, and agree with the tech limitation, war, and devassalisation attempt ideas. I'll get into it tomorrow.

[Sweetacshon]

Hmm... I'll apologise and level with you, I meant to play tonight, but I went out for dinner and am now drunk. I've learned not to play sgs like this, so either someone else grab it til I sober up, or I'll play then.

[LKendter]

Roster
Signed up:
LKendter
Sweetacshon (currently playing)
Pigswill (on deck) Do you want to grab this?
TheLastOne36
Sooooo

[pigswill]

Won't be able to fit in a set before tomorrow evening. Hopefully Sweetacshon will be sober before then.

[Sweetacshon]

the save

This one was full of long turns, and not great to describe without 100 screenshots, which I never take. With a great deal of unit movement, Sury has just one city left on the continent, which can be taken in a turn or 2, and 1 offshore. Zara was harder to advance on, particularly as there was no siege down south. Also, every time I did look to advance, he'd sack a bunch of units and retreat was the only option. Eventually, thugh, the units got into position and one city was (auto)razed, and another taken. We have quite a few units in that new city, and with the northern army almost finished its campaign,things should speed up down south. The downside is the opposing infantry and machine guns... but I suppose that is what drafted cannon fodder is for.

We do have a problem, though, and that is economic. WW is so high that we are in a hole. The best we seem to be able to achieve is 30% culture @ about -18gpt. Sury is giving us about 1200 WW, and Zara about 600, so getting peace or killing Sury will make a huge difference there.

Other than not getting as far toward Zara's capital as I wanted to, everything went pretty much according to plan. I clicked on defy AP peace with Zara resolution... for educational purposes, of course... and we'll see what happens there. Up north, Pericles dropped a culture bomb, so we'll have to work on that.

Spoiler:

425 1830

IT a few deaths on either side, most notably, our caravel is sunk by a destroyer.

426 1832
Vimayapura falls. We're particularly short of siege down south, so lot's of troop movement.

427

428 1836
Zara has only 1 source of iron, so it is sabotaged... hopefully that's a few less cannons.

429

430 1840
Isvarapura falls
Finally a little joy in the south, although the city, of which I just can't remember the name now) was autorazed.

431 1842
Here's that AP resolution again. Defy!

432
Iariharalaya falls
Zara's counter attack finally turns up. Zara obviously got the iron hooked up again, and there is also the first sighting of infantry.


433
Pericles bombs up north.


434 1848
Matara falls.

435

[TheLastOne36]

NIce turns. From what i see, Surya is going down, Zara is going to be a harder fight. He already has Infantry, and that's not good. This means that winning by sheer numbers is going to have to be the choice here. (sadly)

[LKendter]

New Updates
We went from 38% pop and 43% land to 44% pop and 47% land.
I really didn't expect most of this to come from the Sury, but we continue to move forward. My plan was to push heavy against Zara leaving the battle vs. Sury in defense mode. I wanted to hurt the bigger threat of Zara.

10% luxuries bleeds $60 /turn. 40% luxuries bleeds $29/turn and greatly slows down starvation. Why in the world are we running 10% luxuries?
You know you are really screwed when you make more income with upping the luxury tax. To avoid mass starvation it looks like 40% luxuries for now. What is worse is it virtually impossible to get rid of the WW from Sury due to Prague. With it buried in the territory of the Holy Roman Empire we will never get rid of it.

@Pigswill - can you please review our cities for multiple pop whipping? I looked over the cities, and we have to many starving cities.

I would send the GG to Borsippa for a military academy to pump out cannon faster.

Our next push needs to be toward Lalibela. We have *no* spices, and we desperately need another source of happiness.


Roster
Signed up:
LKendter
Sweetacshon
Pigswill (currently playing)
TheLastOne36 (on deck)
Sooooo

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open

Planned wars - keep pounding on Zara.

[Sweetacshon]

10% luxuries bleeds $60 /turn. 40% luxuries bleeds $29/turn and greatly slows down starvation. Why in the world are we running 10% luxuries?

I have to agree.. it really only ramped up in the last few turns with the push into Zara, so I caught it at the end of the TS. I'm pretty sure 30% was -18gpt, tho??

[sooooo]

Pretty nice work Sweetachshon! It's just typical for this game that Pericles culture bombed us at that moment. Anyway, good luck Pigswill.

[pigswill]

Got it.

Bit of MM and a couple of whipped theatres and we're running happy and profitable at 40% culture (even Babylon).

Taking out Sury's arctic city is going to be important; though I read that there are destroyers around so it could be a bit of a challenge. His last mainland city should be relatively straightforwards. Annihilating Sury should seriously reduce WW and increase happy.

I would definitely use GG as a Medic3, we basically need one per stack.

[LKendter]

Originally Posted by pigswill

His last mainland city should be relatively straightforwards.

Please take a look at the map and locate Prague. That is one of Sury's cities IIRC. It is on the opposite side of the map. We have no way to get to it, as it is buried inside the Holy Roman Empire. Our best hope is Sury rejects his master and we can sign a separate peace.

[pigswill]

Looked at the map, found Prague. Its a bit of a challenge. After taking island city maybe just assemble a decent size stack and march through Ethiopia.

There's also the minor detail that we might have to declare on Chuck (and Pericles) to get to Prague though depending on relative culture Prague's borders may expand enough before we get there.

[sooooo]

Let's just ignore the island city and Prague, take Rajahara. Then hammer Zara until he releases mastership of Surya, then sign peace with Surya, eliminate Zara. Zara is going to be really tough, so let's not go in peacemeal. Finish off Rajahara, assemble one big SoD with plenty of cannons and take one Ethiopian city at a time.

[Sweetacshon]

Yep, I think that is the go, sooooo. There is only one city between us and the capital, which has about 8 hills around it. Let's head straight in there. Knocking out that production powerhouse will be good... it's not as if infantry are that cheap. Also keep spies heading for his iron to stem his cannon flow.

I am away for the weekend again, so skip me... i might be able to checkin, tho. Best of luck!

[pigswill]

Played nine turns so far. Took Surya'c city of Rajavihara in the first round (lost a cannon I think) then lots of sparring, moving units, building units, adjusting tiles to reduce starvation etc etc. Used the GG for a second Medic.

Sury's arctic city had a couple of frigates which he sent to harass us. I suicided four caravels and three galleys to take them out; the three galleys left were enough to drop four cannon and a couple of rifles next to the city with four more rifles waiting to disembark.

At the same time as requested I sent a couple of stacks towards Lalibala, itwas defended by a couple of machine-guns and a few sundry units; cost me four cannon and two cats to capture it.

At this point Sury de-vassalised and is ofering us the following deal:


Pericles got another GA which he used for another culture bomb up north.

We're now on 49%pop (need 49%) and 51%land (need 64%).

Should we take Sury's deal? (I'd say yes without hesitation).

[sooooo]

With 9 turns played do you want to finish your set and upload the save?

Taking Prague from a peace treaty is a nono because it gets instantly taken by Zara and increases our WW. Not sure about accepting the capitulation - what does it get us? Can we demand his techs or resources or will he be too annoyed at us to do so?

The save would be nice because we can see what he is offering for just a straight peace deal.

[LKendter]

Originally Posted by pigswill

Should we take Sury's deal? (I'd say yes without hesitation).

I agree we should make peace with Sury.

However, Prague is not defendable. I wouldn't bother with the city. Losing a city IIRC really makes WW bad.

I don't like capitulation. If Sury lost Prague would he break away from us? The last thing we need is Sury become a vassal of Pericles.

So it comes down to how much more tech can we squeeze? Divine right is useless to us. Liberalism is great, and I would gladly go free religion for more happiness. I suspect either military tech would help, but I can't recall what the do without the game in front of me.


EDIT: Cross posted with sooooo. This make be a good breaking point for a save, so that we can figure out the best deal.