Tanks R.I.P.?

skallben · Jul 31, 2007, 12:56 PM

With the new Anit-Tank unit available cheap from Artillery tanks are seriously challenged. Starting with +100% against armored and ambush promotion, they simply crush tanks. Cheap to build and then toss in some defense bonus, fortify, terrain defense, city defense effectively means that even with some air/artillery support you are going to take damage.

For this reason I personally do rush to Robotics for Mech. Inf and try to pick up the Internet on the way to Robotics.

Seidrik_The_Gray · Jul 31, 2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skallben

With the new Anit-Tank unit available cheap from Artillery tanks are seriously challenged. Starting with +100% against armored and ambush promotion, they simply crush tanks. Cheap to build and then toss in some defense bonus, fortify, terrain defense, city defense effectively means that even with some air/artillery support you are going to take damage.

For this reason I personally do rush to Robotics for Mech. Inf and try to pick up the Internet on the way to Robotics.

In modern warfare, a Tank without Infantry or Helicopter support is Dead Meat.

Landstander · Jul 31, 2007, 01:13 PM

Tank Rush R.I.P.

mrt144 · Jul 31, 2007, 01:23 PM

this is a good thing. we might even see some waves of attack (such as one is heavily weighted towards infantry, and one is heavily weighted towards armor)

Drawmeus · Jul 31, 2007, 01:24 PM

If you can't find a good use for a couple tanks, you're not trying hard enough.

Keep in mind that if you force them to spam AT, they're much more vulnerable to your Infantry/Cavalry than otherwise.

Dark_Jedi06 · Jul 31, 2007, 01:27 PM

Who needs Tanks when you have Paratroopers?

Tank rushing is boring anyway...as is any army made up of a single unit. Now warfare is a bit more complex in the later game.

CivDude86 · Jul 31, 2007, 01:32 PM

Before it was gunships, now its these guys. Not much has changed except going you beat up the oil-less civs as easily.

skallben · Jul 31, 2007, 01:33 PM

Agreed, a counterunit for tanks was needed - I just think it is a bit too strong.

No, I do not tank-spam/rush, I never said that. Im using very mixed forces at any time possible.

frob2900 · Jul 31, 2007, 02:10 PM

Arent gunships already reason enough not to tank spam?

I learnt the hard way in Warlords many months back when a 3x20 stack tank army I sent against Shaka was eaten alive by gunships.

Dan Quale · Jul 31, 2007, 02:45 PM

Tanks are great for one reason CR promotions, Nothing is a effective as a cr3 modern armor fresh off the production line.

frob2900 · Jul 31, 2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Quale

Tanks are great for one reason CR promotions, Nothing is a effective as a cr3 modern armor fresh off the production line.

Nitpick: Modern Armor aren't the same as tanks.. they show up much later.

largedarryl · Jul 31, 2007, 02:55 PM

In another thread talking about UU's, I suggested that the anti-tank unit get pushed back to rocketry. I am still trying to see how that would work properly, but it would give a small window for a "tank rush". Then if you have a tech lead it could be a really big window, so it's possible that it being placed with artillery is almost balanced.

Figaro · Jul 31, 2007, 03:01 PM

I like the AT-unit, but yeah, it's too powerful. I don't think it needs Ambush AND +100%; ditch the Ambush.

greenday_234 · Jul 31, 2007, 03:20 PM

Personally I love the new additions. In a lot of ways it seems as if Firaxis was watching my play style and then found ways to destroy it. Which makes me happy as now I have to find new strategies.

In the previous iterations of civ all I had to do by the late game was build ass loads of bombers, plant them in one city send in an army full of Mech and Modern Armor and the war was as sure as won...boring!

In summation my two favorite military additions to BTS:

Anti-Tank: forces me to build mixed forces and strategize my campaign

Limiting the number of bombers per city: greatly reducing the power of the previously unbalanced bomber.

Landstander · Jul 31, 2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Arent gunships already reason enough not to tank spam?

I LOVE gunships - but sadly all of my opponents LOVE Sam Infantry. I'm sure now they're gonna LOVE the new Mobile SAM.

futurehermit · Jul 31, 2007, 05:11 PM

Tanks were too powerful when beelined. Same with cavalry.

BtS has been GREAT for making warfare more complex. Same with the new ship that counters frigates.

I love it: Mixed-stacks are a MUST now, as is more strategical warfare!

ComradeGeneral · Jul 31, 2007, 05:14 PM

Thats why you keep your rivals down, get ahead in the tech race and just unleash the beast while they only have riflemen.

hossam · Jul 31, 2007, 05:19 PM

CAN somebody tell me how the police state civic changes in bts plz?

ComradeGeneral · Jul 31, 2007, 05:19 PM

i think it just adds more espionage points

mrt144 · Jul 31, 2007, 06:28 PM

is the AI building anti tank guns (Im still in the renaissance era in my first full fledged game)? follow up: do you have to build them against the AI?

Jul 31, 2007, 12:56 PM	#1
skallben Holy Megalomaniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cold Country in Europe Posts: 955	Tanks R.I.P.? With the new Anit-Tank unit available cheap from Artillery tanks are seriously challenged. Starting with +100% against armored and ambush promotion, they simply crush tanks. Cheap to build and then toss in some defense bonus, fortify, terrain defense, city defense effectively means that even with some air/artillery support you are going to take damage. For this reason I personally do rush to Robotics for Mech. Inf and try to pick up the Internet on the way to Robotics.

Jul 31, 2007, 01:27 PM	#6
Dark_Jedi06 "Deus ex Machina." Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Winchester, VA Posts: 983 Images: 2	Who needs Tanks when you have Paratroopers? Tank rushing is boring anyway...as is any army made up of a single unit. Now warfare is a bit more complex in the later game. __________________ Legendary Earth Mod (LEM) *A balanced and accurate Earth map for Civilization V.* Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Deu_sEx_machina "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions, but by *iron* and *blood." ~Otto von Bismarck*

Jul 31, 2007, 02:55 PM	#12
largedarryl Prince Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 423	In another thread talking about UU's, I suggested that the anti-tank unit get pushed back to rocketry. I am still trying to see how that would work properly, but it would give a small window for a "tank rush". Then if you have a tech lead it could be a really big window, so it's possible that it being placed with artillery is almost balanced. __________________ "There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for." -Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

Jul 31, 2007, 05:11 PM	#16
futurehermit Deity Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,707	Tanks were too powerful when beelined. Same with cavalry. BtS has been GREAT for making warfare more complex. Same with the new ship that counters frigates. I love it: Mixed-stacks are a MUST now, as is more strategical warfare! __________________ Land is power. Land is power. Land is power. Monarch Specialist Economy Walkthrough 1 Monarch Specialist Economy Walkthrough 2

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Jul 31, 2007, 01:13 PM	#3
Landstander Warlord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 188	Tank Rush R.I.P.

Jul 31, 2007, 01:23 PM	#4
mrt144 Deity Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 9,686 Images: 2	this is a good thing. we might even see some waves of attack (such as one is heavily weighted towards infantry, and one is heavily weighted towards armor)

Jul 31, 2007, 01:24 PM	#5
Drawmeus Emperor Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,203	If you can't find a good use for a couple tanks, you're not trying hard enough. Keep in mind that if you force them to spam AT, they're much more vulnerable to your Infantry/Cavalry than otherwise.

Jul 31, 2007, 01:32 PM	#7
CivDude86 King Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 862	Before it was gunships, now its these guys. Not much has changed except going you beat up the oil-less civs as easily.

Jul 31, 2007, 01:33 PM	#8
skallben Holy Megalomaniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cold Country in Europe Posts: 955	Agreed, a counterunit for tanks was needed - I just think it is a bit too strong. No, I do not tank-spam/rush, I never said that. Im using very mixed forces at any time possible.

Jul 31, 2007, 02:10 PM	#9
frob2900 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,117	Arent gunships already reason enough not to tank spam? I learnt the hard way in Warlords many months back when a 3x20 stack tank army I sent against Shaka was eaten alive by gunships.

Jul 31, 2007, 02:45 PM	#10
Dan Quale Prince Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 401	Tanks are great for one reason CR promotions, Nothing is a effective as a cr3 modern armor fresh off the production line.

Jul 31, 2007, 03:01 PM	#13
Figaro Tywysog Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 580	I like the AT-unit, but yeah, it's too powerful. I don't think it needs Ambush AND +100%; ditch the Ambush.

Jul 31, 2007, 03:20 PM	#14
greenday_234 Chieftain Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 37	Personally I love the new additions. In a lot of ways it seems as if Firaxis was watching my play style and then found ways to destroy it. Which makes me happy as now I have to find new strategies. In the previous iterations of civ all I had to do by the late game was build ass loads of bombers, plant them in one city send in an army full of Mech and Modern Armor and the war was as sure as won...boring! In summation my two favorite military additions to BTS: Anti-Tank: forces me to build mixed forces and strategize my campaign Limiting the number of bombers per city: greatly reducing the power of the previously unbalanced bomber.

Jul 31, 2007, 05:14 PM	#17
ComradeGeneral The Penguin Overlord Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In Soviet-Occupied Germany... Posts: 117	Thats why you keep your rivals down, get ahead in the tech race and just unleash the beast while they only have riflemen.

Jul 31, 2007, 05:19 PM	#18
hossam Deity Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 2,480	CAN somebody tell me how the police state civic changes in bts plz?

Jul 31, 2007, 06:28 PM	#20
mrt144 Deity Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 9,686 Images: 2	is the AI building anti tank guns (Im still in the renaissance era in my first full fledged game)? follow up: do you have to build them against the AI?

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