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View Poll Results: Are you a Nationalist or an Internationalist?
I live in the U.S. and I am a Nationalist. 11 21.57%
I live in the U.S. and I am an Internationalist. 14 27.45%
I live in the E.U. and I am a Nationalist. 3 5.88%
I live in the E.U. and I am an Internationalist. 14 27.45%
I live somewhere else and I am a Nationalist. 3 5.88%
I live somewhere else and I am an Internationalist. 6 11.76%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:41 PM   #1
Samuelson
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Nationalism vs. Internationalism

Are you a nationalist or an internationalist?

I personally am an internationalist. Nationalism is equivalent to racism. It is grouping people together and saying one group is naturally better in some way than another group. However borders are artificial and man made. In reality we are all part of a human species and where you are born does not change your genetics.

Many times people will say their country has certain values like liberty or freedom. To them I would say that all people want liberty and freedom, and it is not specifically values that belong to their country.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:44 PM   #2
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The only time where countries are useful is during the World Cup.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:45 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Masquerouge View Post
The only time where countries are useful is during the World Cup.
Yes, I definitely agree with you here.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:45 PM   #4
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Im an American and I believe in international co-operation with benefits for nations.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:50 PM   #5
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I'm Norwegian and believe city-states is the best way to run things. That way, you defend the place where you are from (in war), and when you vote, it directly impacts you. Local control, influence and loyalty/patriotism.
So I'm not a nationalist, not an internationalist, but a citilist? (pro city-states)
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:50 PM   #6
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I'm a regionalist

Edit: Damned Homie trying to steal my thunder.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:56 PM   #7
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city states would just fall back into nation states for mutual protection after a while.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homie View Post
I'm Norwegian and believe city-states is the best way to run things. That way, you defend the place where you are from (in war), and when you vote, it directly impacts you. Local control, influence and loyalty/patriotism.
So I'm not a nationalist, not an internationalist, but a citilist? (pro city-states)
I would agree that cities is the best level for political involvement, but it's certainly not the best level for economical involvement.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 03:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homie View Post
I'm Norwegian and believe city-states is the best way to run things. That way, you defend the place where you are from (in war), and when you vote, it directly impacts you. Local control, influence and loyalty/patriotism.
So I'm not a nationalist, not an internationalist, but a citilist? (pro city-states)
It's called extreme Decentralisation

I don't think in my life time we will see a unified earth since we are all 2 different atm but, I do think we may have 20 or 25 E.U. like nations with well under 50 indie states. I would love to live in a city state within a E.U. like structure. Something like 10% tax max for the union - visas,central bank, armed forces etc and the rest if any taxes could be voted on locally.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:03 PM   #10
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Nationalism has nothing to do with racism. There is no way to equate the two at all, that's just silly. National borders have nothing to do with the race of people within those borders. That's just European, old world thinking that's best left to wither on the vine.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masquerouge View Post
I would agree that cities is the best level for political involvement, but it's certainly not the best level for economical involvement.
Oh, but it is. Being a city-state does not disqualify you from international trade. In fact, city-states depend on it. City-states also flourish economically, so I don't see how you have reached that conclusion.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:07 PM   #12
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I wouldn't compare nationalism to racism. Of course, everything can be taken to the extreme, but fundamentally, nationalism is, for example, about everyone having a responsibility for their country, and that they should put their country ahead of themselves.
I don't view nationalism as something fundamentally bad; racism is the idea that one race is better than others, while nationalism doesn't necessarily view one nation (or rather the population thereof) as better than others.

IMO, nationalism is healthy for a country in most cases, but of course, as with most other ideologies, it should not be taken to the extreme.

I am an internationalist; while I think that the culture of the individual nations of the world are important, I think we should work on unifying the world, one step at a time. I know that it's probably impossible, since man has such a violent history, but many people throughout history have suffered because of divisions between nations, races and religions, and although it probably won't ever happen, we should still work on putting all that hatred beind us.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elta View Post
It's called extreme Decentralisation

I don't think in my life time we will see a unified earth since we are all 2 different atm but, I do think we may have 20 or 25 E.U. like nations with well under 50 indie states. I would love to live in a city state within a E.U. like structure. Something like 10% tax max for the union - visas,central bank, armed forces etc and the rest if any taxes could be voted on locally.
In theory that is what the US is (although not in practice). They pay federal tax to a central government, then the rest is voted on locally within the state.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homie View Post
Oh, but it is. Being a city-state does not disqualify you from international trade. In fact, city-states depend on it. City-states also flourish economically, so I don't see how you have reached that conclusion.
The less borders and frontiers, the better trade is.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:17 PM   #15
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I am an internationalist, which does not mean that I want some sort of world government.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRWCAgent View Post
Nationalism has nothing to do with racism. There is no way to equate the two at all, that's just silly. National borders have nothing to do with the race of people within those borders. That's just European, old world thinking that's best left to wither on the vine.
They are different things obviously, but they are very similar in many ways. Both are grouping together people based on things those people dont control (where they are born or what race they are born into) and making judgments about those groups.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelson View Post
They are different things obviously, but they are very similar in many ways. Both are grouping together people based on things those people dont control (where they are born or what race they are born into) and making judgments about those groups.
Yes, I agree with that, but racism can only be based on genetics, nothing else. If it's anything else, it is not racism.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oagersnap View Post
I wouldn't compare nationalism to racism. Of course, everything can be taken to the extreme, but fundamentally, nationalism is, for example, about everyone having a responsibility for their country, and that they should put their country ahead of themselves.
I don't view nationalism as something fundamentally bad; racism is the idea that one race is better than others, while nationalism doesn't necessarily view one nation (or rather the population thereof) as better than others.

IMO, nationalism is healthy for a country in most cases, but of course, as with most other ideologies, it should not be taken to the extreme.

I am an internationalist; while I think that the culture of the individual nations of the world are important, I think we should work on unifying the world, one step at a time. I know that it's probably impossible, since man has such a violent history, but many people throughout history have suffered because of divisions between nations, races and religions, and although it probably won't ever happen, we should still work on putting all that hatred beind us.
Why should people put their country ahead of themselves? I think people that if anything, people should put the people of the world ahead of themselves instead of the country their born into.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:23 PM   #19
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Nationalism isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is in moderation. In Britain, we've been taught endlessly that nationalism is bad (to the extent that displaying the Union Jack is considered racism and can get you fired from your job, if someone takes offense). That may or may not have led to a decrease in racism. What it has done is create a nation of young people who do not feel any responsibility towards their country, only to themselves. Herein lie many of Britain's social problems: from vandalism and litter through to mugging and other crimes.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 04:23 PM   #20
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What exactly is an internationalist?

Internationalism sounds just like nationalism on the international scale. I don't see how cooperation among European states is any better than cooperation among American states.
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