ALC Game 18: Spain/Isabella
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i'll get him back for forgetting to put me on the favorites list by telling you that there are two choices:
sea-snake thingy
Your Best Option for Doing Business in Mexico - thank goodness he shortened that one!
but actually, some silly guy once told me it's "sis-U-til".
. personally, i think of him as "sea-snake thingy", and that's why i call him S usually *giggle*.slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
I've always gone with Sus-Sus-Sussudio.
facistal
Civer
Charlie is a difficult opponent to be right on your doorstep. I have to agree with the contingent that is worrying that the protective archers are too risky to try and rush with just axes.You have precious few windows of opportunity however, You never know if you can get cats before he gets long bows, and if he gets to engineering you can just forget about it. Those modified pikemen are MURDER - Even against CR3 Maces you will suffer heavy casualties.
So to contradict myself you must kill him now. However I think you only chance is to get alphabet first, start directing all your EP's at chuck now and you will be able to bring down the cultural defenses of the capital.
Spies are your only chance
So to contradict myself you must kill him now. However I think you only chance is to get alphabet first, start directing all your EP's at chuck now and you will be able to bring down the cultural defenses of the capital.
Spies are your only chance
Scarredroman
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 274
I might take Monarchy from the Oracle and then use the GP to found Christianity, but that was with Stonehenge in the bag.
Will Sisi utilize the axe rush? It paid off in Peter II, big time.
Will Sisi utilize the axe rush? It paid off in Peter II, big time.
viinno
Chieftain
Allway thought he was sis-tool-ee , but then 1 day there were no ALC posts for a bit so I actually paid attention, now Im conviced its Sis EE util
slaze
Deity
The axe rush ain't gonna be easy, but neither is the constuction beeline.
For the axe rush you get a second worker, a barracks and 8 axes. No settler. Chop.
For the construction beeline you have to fight for every square inch of mediocre land you can find. What you WANT (!!!!!!!!!!!) is the ivory, cow clam city (construction beeline right, mwah ha ha). But i don't know if you can claim that right off the bat (maintenance), charles is imp so he has the first move, luckily for you your land sucks so he'll probably go west. You have your strategic resource, so you want commerce for city #2. Otaku's green grassland might be allright if you cottage the hell out of it (and good overlap, i.e. "borrow" the rice with capitol). but even better immediate commerce is on the river, and validator's wine city looks like the move for that. I mean, whatever city you build, you want it to have 3-4 cottagable tiles, and wine's river floodplains plus river plains can cover that. plus it has mines if needed, something lacking on your cut of land. But river = commerce. the donwside is it compromises the grassland between it and the cap, but as is typically the case, there's plenty of land out there. Halfway down the constuction beeline is writing, so you'll want high food sites for scientists for cities 3 & 4. And if you go construction, do the Oracle->Colossus per stuge.
I think it'll all depends on charlie's move. I'd get the second worker out and build/chop the axemen, all the while preparing for a settler (chop/whip) if needed. Pay attention to jumps in charlie's score (2nd city). If he goes west you have free reign to do what you will, and any charlie city out of place gets burned.
Techwise, use the bonuses for the most efficient run through the tree; no need to "rush" to things you don't absolutely need. You're gonna need Ag and possibly hunting (spearmen and ivory camps). And don't be afraid to get meditation relatively soon. Teamed with scientists, monastaries'll get you catapults (and capitols) that much faster.
For the axe rush you get a second worker, a barracks and 8 axes. No settler. Chop.
For the construction beeline you have to fight for every square inch of mediocre land you can find. What you WANT (!!!!!!!!!!!) is the ivory, cow clam city (construction beeline right, mwah ha ha). But i don't know if you can claim that right off the bat (maintenance), charles is imp so he has the first move, luckily for you your land sucks so he'll probably go west. You have your strategic resource, so you want commerce for city #2. Otaku's green grassland might be allright if you cottage the hell out of it (and good overlap, i.e. "borrow" the rice with capitol). but even better immediate commerce is on the river, and validator's wine city looks like the move for that. I mean, whatever city you build, you want it to have 3-4 cottagable tiles, and wine's river floodplains plus river plains can cover that. plus it has mines if needed, something lacking on your cut of land. But river = commerce. the donwside is it compromises the grassland between it and the cap, but as is typically the case, there's plenty of land out there. Halfway down the constuction beeline is writing, so you'll want high food sites for scientists for cities 3 & 4. And if you go construction, do the Oracle->Colossus per stuge.
I think it'll all depends on charlie's move. I'd get the second worker out and build/chop the axemen, all the while preparing for a settler (chop/whip) if needed. Pay attention to jumps in charlie's score (2nd city). If he goes west you have free reign to do what you will, and any charlie city out of place gets burned.
Techwise, use the bonuses for the most efficient run through the tree; no need to "rush" to things you don't absolutely need. You're gonna need Ag and possibly hunting (spearmen and ivory camps). And don't be afraid to get meditation relatively soon. Teamed with scientists, monastaries'll get you catapults (and capitols) that much faster.
flamingzaroc121
Emperor
I always say Sis u til
Cookie Crumbs
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2006
- Messages
- 485
I've played against Charlemagne and he doesn't tend to go unit-crazy, so you shouldn't face too many archer units but things could get ugly if it's a hilled city so I see two viable options:
1. Declare early war and pillage while building up an army of axemen, and catapults if you find it's on a hill. He most certainly will keep trying to pump out settlers this early in the game so a mass-buildup of archers in the capital is less likely.
2. Build up axes and run the risk of the capital being overdefended/on hills (or both), in which case all you can do is raze/kill any cities/settlers he makes until Construction. The problem with this is that you don't use all your production to capture the capital, unlike the first option. The advantage is that if it's on plains the war will be over quickly and you can expand quicker.
You could also go for Priesthood>Writing for Open Borders and scout without war, but this will take longer and you won't be stunting his growth.
Axes/Oracle should be higher priority than Settlers right now: you already have copper, Iron Working is ages away anyway and there aren't any resources that are immediately useful since Spices aren't usable until Calender and you're Expanisve so health isn't an issue either.
1. Declare early war and pillage while building up an army of axemen, and catapults if you find it's on a hill. He most certainly will keep trying to pump out settlers this early in the game so a mass-buildup of archers in the capital is less likely.
2. Build up axes and run the risk of the capital being overdefended/on hills (or both), in which case all you can do is raze/kill any cities/settlers he makes until Construction. The problem with this is that you don't use all your production to capture the capital, unlike the first option. The advantage is that if it's on plains the war will be over quickly and you can expand quicker.
You could also go for Priesthood>Writing for Open Borders and scout without war, but this will take longer and you won't be stunting his growth.
Axes/Oracle should be higher priority than Settlers right now: you already have copper, Iron Working is ages away anyway and there aren't any resources that are immediately useful since Spices aren't usable until Calender and you're Expanisve so health isn't an issue either.
Azander
Fairy
I'm convinced it's Sister Till. That's how I read it...
Whitedragon
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 10, 2007
- Messages
- 64
If you are going to attack, I'd say forget about the barracks. Get another city or two out and pump out some axes. You'll probably do well enough with 10 or so assuming that Cookie is correct in the assessment that Charlie doesn't prioritize defenders.
Also, don't worry about building workers, he'll probably have a few to steal...
slaze
Deity
At present, the worker (10 turns) is faster than an axeman (13). The speed of the axemen coming out will depend on the mines that need to be built and that 2nd worker (mining/chopping) will get us to 7 axemen faster than the one worker. If he goes for the rush, I'd build the 2nd worker right after the first.
Another thing, Madrid is just barely a whipping town. with the rice it is, without the rice it isn't. Once you convert to hinduism you're allowed 6 pop which will be on the 4 mines and the 2 clams for a surplus of just one
. Working those high 
yeild tiles is more efficient until you get the rice farmed. With that the case and if the rush is on, pottery isn't much of a concern until later, or at least until the rice is farmed. Unit costs is something else to consider. You're allowed what, 8 units? (9 at pop 4) After a warrior and 2 workers, that's 6 axemen you get to stockpile before you incur costs. and you're always only allowed 4 units to supply. With only one city to support these costs, I'd rather have a barracks and less units than no barracks and more. If he's got three archers in his capitol (and it's a floodplain city, I doubt it's on a hill) I've found that if the first wave does some damage, the second wave can win. If he has three archers, it is possible (albeit unlikely) that 6 axemen can take them down. I'd take 8 just to be sure. Even if he ends up with 4 archers, blow your load and see what happens. If it's five, go searching for his second city and try and make some money to support the cost of all those axemen.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
post deleted for my bad math and inability to account for archer first strikes.
Suffice it to say that 9-12 CR I axes, plus 1 Combat I spearman, should be the first wave.
Suffice it to say that 9-12 CR I axes, plus 1 Combat I spearman, should be the first wave.
SickCycle
Prince
He doesn't post because he knows he's gonna lose this game 
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 2: 2875 BC to 1050 BC
Oh ye of little faith!
Once Madrid finished the Worker, I started on a Settler. I knew I'd have copper available before the Settler was finished and planned to interrupt the build to provide the Settler with a protector. I also kept researching the Wheel. In fact, I pretty much stuck to slobberinbear's tech plan, with one exception. Details are below.
Meanwhile, my Warrior kept circling around HRE territory and came across something very interesting:
A Worker building a pasture for some sort of invisible animal. Gee, I wonder what that could be?
Well, this was too good to pass up. With one act, I could steal a free Worker and delay Charlie's access to a strategic resource. War would also give me a chance to scope out HRE territory.
There was much good news at this point: (a) that Archer to the north who could have killed my Warrior and taken the Worker back didn't because he's protecting a Settler; (b) that means Charlie was expanding northwards, giving me a chance to settle to his east, my west; and (c) Aachen is not on a hill. Now, it might seem as though the HRE capital's weak protection was also good news, but of course, thanks to the DoW, it didn't stay that way.
Since the HRE capital is not on a hill--and, bonus, that northern city Charlemagne founded is also on flat terrian--I decided to go for the Axe rush, to see if I could pump out more Axemen before Charlemagne could match them with protective Archers. I chopped a barracks, then chopped the Settler for a 2nd city to completion, and then I went crazy with the chopping and the whipping:
Madrid's BFC was pretty much denuded of trees by the time I was done. I've left one forest and a couple of unroaded tiles next to it in the hopes that at least one will grow back and give me a +1 health bonus, but Isabella is Expansive, so I figured no big deal. Getting rid of Charlemagne is worth it.
I founded Barcelona on the NW desert hill as we'd discussed. The city had to build a Work Boat for the clams first, then a barracks, so it only contributed one whipped Axe to my stack before I went on the warpath. Madrid did all the heavy lifting. Good thing it had all those forests!
And I met up with another civ, and guess what? It's another one of the new leaders:
I've only encountered Pacal once in an off-line game so far, and he was right next door to Rome, so I didn't get to know him very well, if you catch my drift. Any opinions on him?
I managed to kill one of Charlie's Scouts and stole another one of his Workers. I also had my Warrior go back to pillage that horse pasture more than once. All this meant he was getting antsy and building up a few more Archers in his capital:
Okay, not good. I weighed my options. If I kept harassing him, he was likely to build up too formidable a protective stack in Aachen to be removed by Axes alone. If I made peace with him, however, he'd be able to pasture the horses.
Well, the solution to the latter problem was obvious: I simply needed Hunting for a Spearman or two. Besides, my explorations were revealing furs, deer, and elephants all nearby, so Hunting seemed like a cheap, worthwhile tech diversion.
Killing his Scout and capturing a 2nd Worker from him were both worth it. Prior to that, he was demanding Barcelona in exchange for peace. As if, dude!
Since I have no screenshots of it, here's how I teched this round:
A few turns later, I had 10 Axemen and 1 Spearman, and I felt ready. A couple of the Axemen even managed to get some XPs from some hapless Barb Warriors who wandered too close to Spanish territory to my liking. I simply hoped the peace treaty had lulled Charlemagne into a false sense of security. (Yes, it feels strange to be talking about a few lines of code as if it's a real person. The Firaxis programmers take a lot of flak on this forum, some of it deserved, perhaps, but they deserve a lot of kudos too.)
The stack was two tiles away from Aachen, just outside HRE borders, in 1100 BC:
The peace treaty apparently did the trick. Aachen was down to 2 Archers from the 3 there had been there previously, when my Warrior had been lurking about. I figure Charlie sent 1 Archer to Prague, which only had 1 protector earlier.
In the two turns it took to get the stack next to Aachen, Charlemagne whipped two Archers, which I pretty much expected. Based upon the promotions, the capital apparently has a Barracks:
So I had 11 units capable of attacking and I was facing 4 tough defenders behind a 60% cultural barrier. Normally I would have felt supremely confident; the first 4 Axemen would die, I knew, but they should have done enough damage to ensure the remaining attacks would be successful. However, these were protective Archers, and my odds sucked:
With the first strike chances the Archers get from the free Drill promotion, there was no guarantee that first few suicide Axemen would do enough damage.
It didn't go well at first. The first four Axemen all died, as expected. But then the fifth Axeman died as well, with odds in the 17% range. I was getting low on Axemen, the city still had all its defenders, and my odds weren't much better:
This, however, is when my luck finally started to change. All the remaining Axemen won their battles, even this guy. The odds gradually improved, from the 55.7% you see above, to 64%, to 78.6%, and finally...
Perhaps the Cover Axe should have attacked earlier, but you know how you get with a promoted unit, wanting to keep it around...
YES!! The HRE capital is mine, and isn't it a beauty? Flood plains, elephants, rice and horses. I love capturing capitals, they're always such good locations. I lost half of my 10 hard-earned Axemen in the process, but I did it and it was worth it. Who says you can't Axe rush a Protective leader?
(Of course, I'm extremely lucky that Aachen was not on a hill. That would have made the Axe rush a non-starter.)
Now here's a look at the map and have a look at what Madrid will finish building on the next turn:
Heh heh, yes, as soon as my stack was ready I started building and chopping the Oracle. I didn't just chop the forests on the hills around Madrid, I built mines in the process. That helped the build of the Oracle tremendously--it was 19 turns without chops and without marble, I might add. I pulled off an Axe rush and an early wonder, and with only two cities. Am I good or what?
Cue the "time to move up a level" posts.
So I figure Metal Casting is the logical choice from the Oracle. Does everyone agree? I'm researching Monarchy now as per slobberinbear's plan, but I'm thinking of changing it to Alphabet. I almost never research Monarchy; I usually trade for it.
Barcelona is being stubborn; Hinduism has yet to spread there. Then again, since Pacal has converted to Buddhism, that may not be such a bad thing. Notice also that Liz is closer to the Buddhist holy city, so it seems more likely to spread to her than the faith I founded. Perhaps I should convert to Buddhism rather than Hinduism for the diplomatic benefits?
(Isabella just shrugged when I asked her. "A religion is a religion," she said, then added, "I'm easy." I cocked an eyebrow at that remark and earned a slap upside the head for my trouble.)
EDIT: Also, based upon the way the map is turning out, I think it's very likely that I'll end up moving the palace, and the city I just took seems like a pretty obvious destination. Madrid looks like it could be a heckuva Heroic Epic city, especially if I build the Moai Statues there. (more Great Prophet points, too!)
Prague is, fortunately, also on flat terrain, but I think Charlie has built a wall there. I'm likely going to have to build another 5-7 Axes in order to finish him off, and I don't have many forests left to chop. The down side of completing the Oracle was that I have no replacements for the Axemen I lost. At least I now have 3 cities capable of producing units instead of just one. I obviously need to pillage the horse pasture again, as it's still within HRE borders, and a bunch of Chariots would ruin my Axemen's day. Should I keep Prague or raze it? Or perhaps I should make peace with Charlie for now and avoid a possible counter attack until reinforcements arrive?
Obviously we'll need to redo the dotmaps. I think the SW clam/corn/wine city is still a go, but a lower priority than some others. Liz is west/southwest of Aachen, so she could beat me to the flood plain/ivory/cow city if I'm not careful. Notice there's another source of horses down there too.
Nevertheless, I feel pretty good about this round. That was one of the most intensive Axe rushes I've ever done and, barring a successful counter-attack by Charlie on the next turn, it was spectacularly successful. And I'm almost done the Oracle, so I think I'm on track to earn a Great Prophet to pop Theology and build the AP.
Isabella is pleased. She's making this purring sound and kneading my shoulders in this way that makes my toes curl up. So I figure it's your turn to debate everything while I take a well-deserved break.
Oh ye of little faith!
Once Madrid finished the Worker, I started on a Settler. I knew I'd have copper available before the Settler was finished and planned to interrupt the build to provide the Settler with a protector. I also kept researching the Wheel. In fact, I pretty much stuck to slobberinbear's tech plan, with one exception. Details are below.
Meanwhile, my Warrior kept circling around HRE territory and came across something very interesting:
A Worker building a pasture for some sort of invisible animal. Gee, I wonder what that could be?
Well, this was too good to pass up. With one act, I could steal a free Worker and delay Charlie's access to a strategic resource. War would also give me a chance to scope out HRE territory.
There was much good news at this point: (a) that Archer to the north who could have killed my Warrior and taken the Worker back didn't because he's protecting a Settler; (b) that means Charlie was expanding northwards, giving me a chance to settle to his east, my west; and (c) Aachen is not on a hill. Now, it might seem as though the HRE capital's weak protection was also good news, but of course, thanks to the DoW, it didn't stay that way.
Since the HRE capital is not on a hill--and, bonus, that northern city Charlemagne founded is also on flat terrian--I decided to go for the Axe rush, to see if I could pump out more Axemen before Charlemagne could match them with protective Archers. I chopped a barracks, then chopped the Settler for a 2nd city to completion, and then I went crazy with the chopping and the whipping:
Madrid's BFC was pretty much denuded of trees by the time I was done. I've left one forest and a couple of unroaded tiles next to it in the hopes that at least one will grow back and give me a +1 health bonus, but Isabella is Expansive, so I figured no big deal. Getting rid of Charlemagne is worth it.
I founded Barcelona on the NW desert hill as we'd discussed. The city had to build a Work Boat for the clams first, then a barracks, so it only contributed one whipped Axe to my stack before I went on the warpath. Madrid did all the heavy lifting. Good thing it had all those forests!
And I met up with another civ, and guess what? It's another one of the new leaders:
I've only encountered Pacal once in an off-line game so far, and he was right next door to Rome, so I didn't get to know him very well, if you catch my drift. Any opinions on him?
I managed to kill one of Charlie's Scouts and stole another one of his Workers. I also had my Warrior go back to pillage that horse pasture more than once. All this meant he was getting antsy and building up a few more Archers in his capital:
Okay, not good. I weighed my options. If I kept harassing him, he was likely to build up too formidable a protective stack in Aachen to be removed by Axes alone. If I made peace with him, however, he'd be able to pasture the horses.
Well, the solution to the latter problem was obvious: I simply needed Hunting for a Spearman or two. Besides, my explorations were revealing furs, deer, and elephants all nearby, so Hunting seemed like a cheap, worthwhile tech diversion.
Killing his Scout and capturing a 2nd Worker from him were both worth it. Prior to that, he was demanding Barcelona in exchange for peace. As if, dude!
Since I have no screenshots of it, here's how I teched this round:
- The Wheel
- Pottery
- Priesthood
- Agriculture
- Animal Husbandry
- Hunting
- Sailing
- Writing
A few turns later, I had 10 Axemen and 1 Spearman, and I felt ready. A couple of the Axemen even managed to get some XPs from some hapless Barb Warriors who wandered too close to Spanish territory to my liking. I simply hoped the peace treaty had lulled Charlemagne into a false sense of security. (Yes, it feels strange to be talking about a few lines of code as if it's a real person. The Firaxis programmers take a lot of flak on this forum, some of it deserved, perhaps, but they deserve a lot of kudos too.)
The stack was two tiles away from Aachen, just outside HRE borders, in 1100 BC:
The peace treaty apparently did the trick. Aachen was down to 2 Archers from the 3 there had been there previously, when my Warrior had been lurking about. I figure Charlie sent 1 Archer to Prague, which only had 1 protector earlier.
In the two turns it took to get the stack next to Aachen, Charlemagne whipped two Archers, which I pretty much expected. Based upon the promotions, the capital apparently has a Barracks:
So I had 11 units capable of attacking and I was facing 4 tough defenders behind a 60% cultural barrier. Normally I would have felt supremely confident; the first 4 Axemen would die, I knew, but they should have done enough damage to ensure the remaining attacks would be successful. However, these were protective Archers, and my odds sucked:
With the first strike chances the Archers get from the free Drill promotion, there was no guarantee that first few suicide Axemen would do enough damage.
It didn't go well at first. The first four Axemen all died, as expected. But then the fifth Axeman died as well, with odds in the 17% range. I was getting low on Axemen, the city still had all its defenders, and my odds weren't much better:
This, however, is when my luck finally started to change. All the remaining Axemen won their battles, even this guy. The odds gradually improved, from the 55.7% you see above, to 64%, to 78.6%, and finally...
Perhaps the Cover Axe should have attacked earlier, but you know how you get with a promoted unit, wanting to keep it around...
YES!! The HRE capital is mine, and isn't it a beauty? Flood plains, elephants, rice and horses. I love capturing capitals, they're always such good locations. I lost half of my 10 hard-earned Axemen in the process, but I did it and it was worth it. Who says you can't Axe rush a Protective leader?
(Of course, I'm extremely lucky that Aachen was not on a hill. That would have made the Axe rush a non-starter.)
Now here's a look at the map and have a look at what Madrid will finish building on the next turn:
Heh heh, yes, as soon as my stack was ready I started building and chopping the Oracle. I didn't just chop the forests on the hills around Madrid, I built mines in the process. That helped the build of the Oracle tremendously--it was 19 turns without chops and without marble, I might add. I pulled off an Axe rush and an early wonder, and with only two cities. Am I good or what?
Cue the "time to move up a level" posts.
So I figure Metal Casting is the logical choice from the Oracle. Does everyone agree? I'm researching Monarchy now as per slobberinbear's plan, but I'm thinking of changing it to Alphabet. I almost never research Monarchy; I usually trade for it.
Barcelona is being stubborn; Hinduism has yet to spread there. Then again, since Pacal has converted to Buddhism, that may not be such a bad thing. Notice also that Liz is closer to the Buddhist holy city, so it seems more likely to spread to her than the faith I founded. Perhaps I should convert to Buddhism rather than Hinduism for the diplomatic benefits?
(Isabella just shrugged when I asked her. "A religion is a religion," she said, then added, "I'm easy." I cocked an eyebrow at that remark and earned a slap upside the head for my trouble.)
EDIT: Also, based upon the way the map is turning out, I think it's very likely that I'll end up moving the palace, and the city I just took seems like a pretty obvious destination. Madrid looks like it could be a heckuva Heroic Epic city, especially if I build the Moai Statues there. (more Great Prophet points, too!)
Prague is, fortunately, also on flat terrain, but I think Charlie has built a wall there. I'm likely going to have to build another 5-7 Axes in order to finish him off, and I don't have many forests left to chop. The down side of completing the Oracle was that I have no replacements for the Axemen I lost. At least I now have 3 cities capable of producing units instead of just one. I obviously need to pillage the horse pasture again, as it's still within HRE borders, and a bunch of Chariots would ruin my Axemen's day. Should I keep Prague or raze it? Or perhaps I should make peace with Charlie for now and avoid a possible counter attack until reinforcements arrive?
Obviously we'll need to redo the dotmaps. I think the SW clam/corn/wine city is still a go, but a lower priority than some others. Liz is west/southwest of Aachen, so she could beat me to the flood plain/ivory/cow city if I'm not careful. Notice there's another source of horses down there too.
Nevertheless, I feel pretty good about this round. That was one of the most intensive Axe rushes I've ever done and, barring a successful counter-attack by Charlie on the next turn, it was spectacularly successful. And I'm almost done the Oracle, so I think I'm on track to earn a Great Prophet to pop Theology and build the AP.
Isabella is pleased. She's making this purring sound and kneading my shoulders in this way that makes my toes curl up. So I figure it's your turn to debate everything while I take a well-deserved break.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Okay, here's my own attempt at a dot map. Existing Spanish cities are in white.
That's 12 cities--pretty ambitious, but a good-sized empire. I wouldn't be surprised if Liz gets to the medium blue or pink sites before me. Perhaps I should try to rush out to the pink site--with 2 gold mines, cows, and 2 flood plains, it's awfully attractive.
In retrospect, I think it's good that I didn't get around to settling a 3rd city in the southwest, south of the peak by the wine, clams, and corn. The red city is, I think, deserves the clams, as well as claiming the remaining floodplains south of Aachen and the ivory and cows. The yellow city is still quite decent, with corn and two flood plains, and the wine right underneath it. Wine is not a spectacular resource to work, so I don't mind settling on top of it.
Once I placed the northern magenta and burnt orange cities to claim the furs and deer, Prague looked well-situated, so it may make sense to keep it so it can work the cows and the spice tiles.
The brown city is a low priority. It will need Civil Service for irrigation and workshops for production.
The dark blue city to the far northwest basically has one main purpose: crabs. That would make it my 7th seafood tile if I manage to claim them all. If I get Metal Casting from the Oracle, building the Colossus somewhere becomes very attractive. Probably in Barcelona, to keep its Great Merchant points from interfering with Madrid's Great Prophet points.
As for priorities, well, the first one is to capture Prague and end Charlemagne's sorry existence. After that, I think the three western cities would be priorities if they're still available, in order to beat Liz to them: pink, medium blue, dark blue. Then I backfill the other sites gradually. And keep in mind we don't know where iron is yet. But since this map covers almost all the tiles, I figure it's bound to show up in one of these BFCs.
Looking at this dotmap, moving the palace to Aachen really makes a lot of sense. I'll have to think about my initial notion to put the Heroic Epic in Madrid; it's turning into an excellent production city, but it's going to be quite far from everything.
The other thing I'm noticing about the map so far is the lack of either stone or marble. Usually one or the other would show up in an area this size. Stone would have been really nice for some of the religious wonders like Angkor Wat and the Spiral Minaret. Hmmm, maybe some more heretics have to die...
Finally, should I be going SE or CE? Aachen will definitely lend itself to cottaging, another reason why it's a better choice for the capital than Madrid; that change will have to occur in time for Bureaucracy. Red, yellow, and pink would be good commerce cities; then again, they could all be farmed and run specialists, too. Barcelona, Madrid, and dark blue would lend themselves better to specialists. The problem with going SE for many of these cities is that they'll need Civil Service before they can be irrigated.
That's 12 cities--pretty ambitious, but a good-sized empire. I wouldn't be surprised if Liz gets to the medium blue or pink sites before me. Perhaps I should try to rush out to the pink site--with 2 gold mines, cows, and 2 flood plains, it's awfully attractive.
In retrospect, I think it's good that I didn't get around to settling a 3rd city in the southwest, south of the peak by the wine, clams, and corn. The red city is, I think, deserves the clams, as well as claiming the remaining floodplains south of Aachen and the ivory and cows. The yellow city is still quite decent, with corn and two flood plains, and the wine right underneath it. Wine is not a spectacular resource to work, so I don't mind settling on top of it.
Once I placed the northern magenta and burnt orange cities to claim the furs and deer, Prague looked well-situated, so it may make sense to keep it so it can work the cows and the spice tiles.
The brown city is a low priority. It will need Civil Service for irrigation and workshops for production.
The dark blue city to the far northwest basically has one main purpose: crabs. That would make it my 7th seafood tile if I manage to claim them all. If I get Metal Casting from the Oracle, building the Colossus somewhere becomes very attractive. Probably in Barcelona, to keep its Great Merchant points from interfering with Madrid's Great Prophet points.
As for priorities, well, the first one is to capture Prague and end Charlemagne's sorry existence. After that, I think the three western cities would be priorities if they're still available, in order to beat Liz to them: pink, medium blue, dark blue. Then I backfill the other sites gradually. And keep in mind we don't know where iron is yet. But since this map covers almost all the tiles, I figure it's bound to show up in one of these BFCs.
Looking at this dotmap, moving the palace to Aachen really makes a lot of sense. I'll have to think about my initial notion to put the Heroic Epic in Madrid; it's turning into an excellent production city, but it's going to be quite far from everything.
The other thing I'm noticing about the map so far is the lack of either stone or marble. Usually one or the other would show up in an area this size. Stone would have been really nice for some of the religious wonders like Angkor Wat and the Spiral Minaret. Hmmm, maybe some more heretics have to die...
Finally, should I be going SE or CE? Aachen will definitely lend itself to cottaging, another reason why it's a better choice for the capital than Madrid; that change will have to occur in time for Bureaucracy. Red, yellow, and pink would be good commerce cities; then again, they could all be farmed and run specialists, too. Barcelona, Madrid, and dark blue would lend themselves better to specialists. The problem with going SE for many of these cities is that they'll need Civil Service before they can be irrigated.
What tech to Take from the Oracle?
I don't see any immediate benefits from MC you're more likely to be working Land and improvable tiles then coastal tiles so I Colossus will be left unused, Gold is the only Happy-metal and it seem very far away so you won't gain any extra benefits from the forge apart from the +25% production.
Probably either Monarchy or COLs.
It depends what kind of expansion you prefer?
Horizontal Rexing or Verticle?
COLs looks better for Much needed Rexing and those courthouses will help cut cost and also opens up Philosophy and Civil Service which is a nice bonus and with 3 Religions (assuming you get Conf) that's another 3 Happy from cheap spiritual temples, so Monarchy can be delayed.
To bad the Theology Slingshot with Oracle is out the window now. Well it's never too late if you can Change builds and research the correct techs, but that's unlikely. although if you produce a Great Prophet early enough that's four religions and another temple to increase the happy cap.
Edit: That's really ambitious going for the 2 blue city and pink locations... especially with the Capital so far away the maintenance looks huge, possibly 6 gold per city without a Courthouse.
If you're gonna settle those locations I suggest you build workers in Madrid and use them to chop settlers in Aachen, it just look to far a distance to travel with a defender unless you settle yellow dot first and build a network of roads.
And even after that the maintenance is gonna hurt, if you're planning on picking up MC, COLs looks like the better option if you're Planning to go rexing that far.
You can always play it risky and hope for the best by picking up MC and Beelining to COLs and hopefully by the time you settle those 3 far off locations, COLs will be finish by then.
Note: Open Boarders and spread the faith.
I don't see any immediate benefits from MC you're more likely to be working Land and improvable tiles then coastal tiles so I Colossus will be left unused, Gold is the only Happy-metal and it seem very far away so you won't gain any extra benefits from the forge apart from the +25% production.
Probably either Monarchy or COLs.
It depends what kind of expansion you prefer?
Horizontal Rexing or Verticle?
COLs looks better for Much needed Rexing and those courthouses will help cut cost and also opens up Philosophy and Civil Service which is a nice bonus and with 3 Religions (assuming you get Conf) that's another 3 Happy from cheap spiritual temples, so Monarchy can be delayed.
To bad the Theology Slingshot with Oracle is out the window now. Well it's never too late if you can Change builds and research the correct techs, but that's unlikely. although if you produce a Great Prophet early enough that's four religions and another temple to increase the happy cap.
Edit: That's really ambitious going for the 2 blue city and pink locations... especially with the Capital so far away the maintenance looks huge, possibly 6 gold per city without a Courthouse.
If you're gonna settle those locations I suggest you build workers in Madrid and use them to chop settlers in Aachen, it just look to far a distance to travel with a defender unless you settle yellow dot first and build a network of roads.
And even after that the maintenance is gonna hurt, if you're planning on picking up MC, COLs looks like the better option if you're Planning to go rexing that far.
You can always play it risky and hope for the best by picking up MC and Beelining to COLs and hopefully by the time you settle those 3 far off locations, COLs will be finish by then.
Note: Open Boarders and spread the faith.
Definitely move the palace to Aachen.
As for CE or SE, I think it is too early to say, depending on how many other civs are crowding your continent. Go hybrid or even CE, changing to SE by swapping cottages for farms is done quickly provided you have a decent worker force to do the job.
Agree to try grabbing the western cities to bar Lizzy. Pink - Dark Blue - Blue would be my choice.
Well done rush I have to say, the two workers gained made it even more worthwile.
As for CE or SE, I think it is too early to say, depending on how many other civs are crowding your continent. Go hybrid or even CE, changing to SE by swapping cottages for farms is done quickly provided you have a decent worker force to do the job.
Agree to try grabbing the western cities to bar Lizzy. Pink - Dark Blue - Blue would be my choice.
Well done rush I have to say, the two workers gained made it even more worthwile.
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