Lonely Hearts Club, Chapter III : Zara Yacob

My vote to De Gualle - I'm suffering from industrious withdrawal. Plus charismatic - some awesome late game warring. But I'm happy with any of them. Don't sneeze at protective - its a pretty cool late game military trait. Just you try and take cities from my CG3Drill2 airdropped infantry.

My games up to around 3.5.
Spoiler :

Around 30 turns to go to a culture win. My top two cities are going to get there in around 25 turns, but I'll probably farm them a bit to run more artists and try and bomb my third city.

Generally things just progressed according to the plan in my last post. Golden age to radio. Then build CR and Eiffel Tower. Was beaten to both Broadway and Rock and Roll by Shaka. War has broken out between Monte and Peter and Isabella and Peter. Brennus also declared on Isabella but has now gone peaceful. Shaka just sits there dominating the tech and power charts. He has enough on his hands too... But I think I am fairly secure. I have rifling now and he doesn't. I also have cannon and a lot of pinch/drill4 oromos I can upgrade in a heartbeat (I got a quest to build a lot of musketmen - that I fulfilled on the next turn - game me free pinch for every Oromo).
 
checkpoint 3 in theory, this is on noble. "in theory" because it's me so it's rambling.
Spoiler :
and the tech rate is slower than i'm used to, so it's odd! they're triply slow since i've had 3 golden ages ... one from the music GA, one from the sports league quest reward, and one from taj mahal. and 2 were after i built MoM so they each lasted 12 years. so i was at double speed a loooooooong time! the bad guys like me, even tho only shaka sees the Conf light. they all already kinda liked me except izzy, and then i got a build castles quest and took the +3 points with everybody reward so that gives me a cushion. three quests, my luck in this game is sick! brennus and isabella STILL haven't met. everybody's getting along and i'd like it to stay that way since i'm getting nice resources from them all, my cities can get huge. izzy's annoyed with shaka and gilga for being heathen but what can ya do. brennus all of a sudden has too much on his hands, but the worst he is with anybody is cautious, and pleased with me. i don't think he's actually planning a war, i think it might be the barb city near him. or maybe he's stressed about the privateer infestation along his coast, i have no idea what's causing that :mischief:.

i'm gonna try for space because i haven't yet in BtS. i haven't had a game go late at all yet. i haven't even played to radio in a real game. but they need to speed up some. i forget what thread but someone was saying about seeing the techs folks are researching thru the espionage, that none of the AI were going for liberalism, it was like they knew he could get it any time he wanted so they might as well not bother ... it's like that in my game. two of them are researching astro now. i want to shake them and say "hello, you could try to get that free!" i'm still waiting on lib since they haven't touched it yet.

anyway, monty's dead. i decided to be bizarre and go start a war for no reason, which i never do. nobody had met him so what the heck. i was building troops and theatres/colloseums for WW and since i'm creative when i got that quest and see, that's a clear omen it was the thing to do! i took a peace break for a while, and in the meantime gilga met him and liked him a bit so i got a -1 for redeclaring but eh, okay. he offered to capitulate quick, i took 2 cities on a biggish island, then texcoco and then his hindu holy capital and he offered right there but i didn't want him as a vassal, since i hadn't seen any late game resources. i haven't had any colonies in BtS but i certainly don't like the thought of having to gift Montezuma techs up to the end of the tech tree to demand my tribute. sure enough, after discovering a certain tech right before i was gonna redeclare anyway, the city that was his new capital was built right on top of it, and that is the only unclaimed (well, by anybody except mr. psycho) source anywhere near me on the map. so, he had to go. oh in the original peace deal, he had 2 cities other than his capital. i asked for one just to see how mad he'd get. he gave it to me i was like WTH? it was junk of course so i gave it back *giggle*. i was surprised tho, he gave me one of his three cities, i must have hurt him!

i kept 5 cities on his continent there, and 2 on a sub-island, the rest were junk. i'll see if i can afford 'em or have to make a colony. i haven't played a game in BtS to a late stage at all. the expenses aren't bad yet, number of cities cost is the worst thing right now, colony expenses are just 19gpt. i thought about building versailles over there with a GE that popped when i was expecting a GM, but then decided to put FP instead. that way, if i do make it a colony, i'll get the option to re-build my own FP somewhere else :p. versailles, i'd lose my chance, and if i leave it out there maybe someone else will build it where it would be useful if i get bloodthirsty again. i'm making wall street now, the conf shrine is a beautiful thing. i delayed researching corp until the banks were ready. i knew the +1 trade routes per city would actually be a bad thing, because it cost me my +2 trade routes per coastal city and ALL of my cities are coastal, including the ex-aztec ones.

if i make a colony they start out knowing everything i know, right? so they could trade techs to everybody else and i can't stop 'em?

it's actually amazing that monty's dead, i really don't go to war, you have no idea. the latest GG from it popped up on that island city that discovered the whales. of course i have no galleons over there to get him anywhere useful *giggle*. i wonder how it decides where they'll appear? at the very last city i got my carefully groomed exp-monkey shock-axe-upgraded-to-mace to 26 exp, so that i didn't have to spend a GG to qualify west point yeehaw! i ALWAYS have to use a GG for that. sometimes the fascism one, i am that much of a non-warmonger :lol:.

these are my active trades, you can see i don't exactly want a world war to break out: the order is isabella, brennus, shaka, peter, gilga (him i'm just gifting clams to since i'm a sweetie).


peter demanded marble really early in the game, i checked and there weren't any wonders i wanted at the time so i gave it to him for 10 turns. maybe he made a national wonder or something. when he came back later offering stone, he'd take only my pigs and cash (well he wanted marble but i didn't want wonder competition ;) ) so then i outsourced pigs from brennus *giggle*. part of why monty had to go was so that i could get silver, the cows were a good bonus too! i went slightly wonder crazy during the golden ages of war. i'd made all these troops, then the quest golden age got triggered right after the war started. so a couple cities made more troops and some made marble wonders. then peter offered stone, and univ of sankore would give me more science points in GLib city but it would have taken way too long to build without stone, and it kinda cascaded from there. so see? it wasn't really my fault. he's like a pusher!

bizarrely enough, taking over aztecville landed me two more religions. i got the hindu shrine, and the last city i captured had no religion. judaism spread there last turn, fun! so now i have access to 5 if i wanted to go culture *giggle*.
 
Checkpoint 4 - Emperor Cultural win in 1868
Spoiler :

Not much to add to earlier posts. Set the slider to 80% culture after Radio and clocked up the turns. Turned some of the towns in my capital into farms to get an extra artist for the last city. Noone declared on me although the AIs fought against themselves. Eventually Shaka invaded Isabella and easily defeated her. Montezuma vassalized to Peter. My only war was my missionary raid on Monte. I gave the captured cities to Churchill to manage and retired back to my home continent.
 
Tch, you had to go and beat me by 8 years?


Sorry - but you did say you would have won much earlier if you hadn't switched to Free Religion. Anyway my thoughts on what worked and what didn't for me:

Spoiler :

What worked:

- Building lots of wonders spread across three cities. Often I had my three culture cities all building wonders. I might lose the race for one, but I got the other two. Not having a big wonder whore on the map helped. My cities were getting around 200 culture per turn before I raised the culture slider.

- Going to radio was a big help. The extra culture from Eiffel Tower plus the safety of having CR and being able to switch civics easily. It may not have been the optimal path, but I was able to get some good techs in trade that allowed me to tech to rifles shortly afterwards and have fairly secure defenses.

- My opening getting early libraries with a creative leader worked well. My early research rate was fast - akin to what I see with a financial leader.

- Getting early Theology and the AP myself rather than letting the AI build it helped a lot. Extra hammers plus I could pump missionaries into AI cities so that I had a chance of an AP vote to stop a war against me.

What didn't:

- Missing Sistine Chapel hurt me. I didn't realize how good this wonder is now.

- I should have delayed my rush to liberalism and founded Islam instead. I only had two holy cities and could easily have had a third. I was in no danger of missing liberalism and the free tech is less important than control of a religion. In the end I spread someone elses religion for the third cathedral.

- I cottaged the capital which was probably a mistake - it was a mix of GP farm, wonder builder and cottage city. I probably would have been better to just farm and watermill it and let the other two cities run cottages.

- My third city lacked enough good cottageable terrain - I probably should have put it in a slightly different position. It maximized the floodplains early and had hills for production but required three artist culture bombs to get legendary.
 
Well, I've played couple a lonley hearts games, I really love them, but I haven't had time to really play much of this one yet since I've been busy playing
'the flying dutchman diety adventures'
(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242678).

Not to mention lots on the go at work (which is where I am now writing this thread :lol: )

Anyhow, I finished my Dutch game yesterday and spent a few hours last night starting my LHC, chapter III: Zara game.

This time I decided to up and ante a little and play on Diety!
You didn't post a link in that second thread for no reason R rolo1 ;)

My plan is a cultural win no later then 1800AD. (no idea if I can do this, but I'm going to outline my very lofty and perhaps unrealistic game plan).

I'm very inspired by this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232250 (which is saying cultural diety before 1000AD is possible, and the author (jesussin) managed a 1280AD cultural-diety victory)

Maybe there is possible combination of moves that would allow for a cultural win before 1000AD in this game, however unlike that thread, this isn't vanilla, quick and I'm not a rocket scientist so 1800AD instead of 1000AD is going to be my target date, if I can pull it off earlier Ill be happy.

My basic game so far and plan for victory:

Three lengendary cities:
-Capital founded on plains/hills NW of starting point. (Lcity #1)
-Second city having marble/corn/horses. (wonder production city) (Lcity #2)
-Third city out North West on the small penninsula linking the 2 clams + sheep. (Lcity #3)

Religions founded / Spread:
-Confucianism (using oracle to tech Code of Laws)
-Taoism (from lightbulbing philosophy from a GS)
-No more then 2 religions needed, but if shaka will spread hinduism to me ill spread it to my 3 Lcities.

Great People Used
-Total of 17-20 Great people is my goal.
-1 scientist inked in Lcity#2 (cultural wonder prod city)
-2 scientists used for lightbulbing (education and philo obvisouly to ensure i get to Lib first and as fast as possible)
-1 preist to build a shrine for confucianism, since that will be my State religion, but this is unessessary/optional/random. (if I end up giving birth to a preist)
-10-13 Great artists. I plan to nest my 1st Artist in Lcity#3 (which I will get free from researching music), and bomb all the rest of them according to reaching the earliest possible victory (7, 3, 1) or something.
-3 non-artists for 2 golden ages.

Wonders
-In capital (Lenegary City #1)
-Stonehenge, Oracle. (already built Stonehenge in my current game, no sweat)
-Temple of Artemis or Pyramids.
(I'd prefer Pyramids, but if the Diety AI builds it first Ill get ToA instead)
-Great Library (if possible)
-U of Sankore (if possible)
-Statue of Zeus (maybe)
-Heroic Epic (optional/undecided)
-Oxford (optional/undecided, probably won't even bother with this one)

-In Lengenday City #2. (horse, corn, marble site)
-Parthenon (built already in my current game)
-Massuleum of Massallos (I forget correct spelling)
-Sistine Chapel (Very Important !)
-Taj'Mahal
-National epic (obviously this will be my very importal GA farm)
(not a whole lot of food here to run lots of GAs, but wonders will help)

-In Lenegary City #3
-Moai Statues or Globe Theatre (undecided atm which one)
-Hermatage (might build this is my cap instead depending on how things go)

Other wonders:
-Oxford Univ - most likely not going to bother with this one, but its possible.
-Wall street - ummm, newp I likely won't have time to build it but maybe.
-National park - I never build this anyways, comes to late to be usefull
-Red cross - Red what? haven't build this since my prince days comes to late.
-Ironworks, I like this one, but I'm not going to bother with it this game nor bother reseaching steel, if the ai trade steel to me then i'll consider, but meh.

Broadway, Rock'n Roll, Hollywood, Cristo, Eiffel Tower.
-Obviously these would be usefull, but I don't plan on researching Radio, and if the AI trades it to me, then I still won't bother cause its so late in the game that I should be near enough to victory to not worry about them.

Tech Path
-Nessessary techs for wonders I need.
-Beeline to Music then Liberalism.
-Liberalism to tech nationalism, then rest of game I plan a 0 or 10% tech rate, with the rest focused all on culture. Maybe Ill trade some techs so I can get Ironworking, metal casting, Guilds, etc, but these aren't nessessary)

Civics
Slavery once I get BW, perhaps Organized Religion, but I probably wont be able to reseach Monotheism till after liberalism.

During 1st Golden age (after MoM is built) Ill switch to Buearacracy/Caste System/Pacifism.

During 2nd or 3rd Golden age (from building taj'mahal - after liberalism or from using 2 GP) Ill switch to Free Speech from Buearacracy. Free market if AI will trade me economics, but unsure.

Also, if I can manage Pyramids (would be nice but not nessessary), I'll obvisouly move to representation ASAP.

no need for herid rule after Lib since culture slider will force happiness.

Game Plan
-Aim for liberalism by 600-800AD (hopefully AI won't have it by then).
After this ALL RESEACH STOPS, and i move the culture slider up all the way, build culture, and farm as many artists as possible using caste system (+175%-375% GP birth rate from parthenon/civics/golden ages/national epic). Only settle one artist, bomb the other 9-15(or however many) once I do some number crunching, and cross fingers and hope I dont get become the victim of an AI attack which is REALLY nasty on diety, since they START with 2 settlers, 2 workers, 2 scouts, and 2-3 archers, and have something like a 30%-50% discount on buildings/units/teching (not sure exactly, but something like this)
 
:bowdown: I can't believe you are going for so many wonders on Diety Cheffster - thats a tall order. I found it hard enough on Emperor knowing that the AI were pulling away from me in the late game.
 
Well, I tend to find its harder on diety to get the wonders you want and aim for, but definatly not impossible.

I'm not thinking each wonder is a 'do or die', but since I have access to marble, and am aiming for an extreamly direct tech path (giving acees to build the wonders before most AI) - I should be able to build most of them, I'm not expecting to have them -all- built, but that is my loftly goal so to speak in an ideal situation.
 
quick makes a big difference on the dates for culture games. each great work is worth more as a percent of the total you need for legendary than it is on other game speeds. on normal they're worth 4k and you need 50k total. on quick they're worth 2680 i think, i know it's more than 2500 and you need 25k total, so 10 GAs and you're past legendary. i love talking civ theory with jesusin, he never makes me feel dumb for my questions and at least one of my oddball things he'd never thought of and actually tried and likes in some situations! *giggle* have fun :)

"-Massuleum of Massallos (I forget correct spelling)"
like three times i called it the Museum of Maussollos when hubby and i were talking about BtS. i don't know history and had never heard of it before and just remembered it wrong (ps i looked up the spelling, had civilopedia open :p). he'd roll his eyes and tell me the real name. so now i call it the Mausoleum of Museums just to annoy him *giggle*.
 
Sorry - but you did say you would have won much earlier if you hadn't switched to Free Religion. Anyway my thoughts on what worked and what didn't for me:

Spoiler :

What worked:

- Building lots of wonders spread across three cities. Often I had my three culture cities all building wonders. I might lose the race for one, but I got the other two. Not having a big wonder whore on the map helped. My cities were getting around 200 culture per turn before I raised the culture slider.

- Going to radio was a big help. The extra culture from Eiffel Tower plus the safety of having CR and being able to switch civics easily. It may not have been the optimal path, but I was able to get some good techs in trade that allowed me to tech to rifles shortly afterwards and have fairly secure defenses.

- My opening getting early libraries with a creative leader worked well. My early research rate was fast - akin to what I see with a financial leader.

- Getting early Theology and the AP myself rather than letting the AI build it helped a lot. Extra hammers plus I could pump missionaries into AI cities so that I had a chance of an AP vote to stop a war against me.

What didn't:

- Missing Sistine Chapel hurt me. I didn't realize how good this wonder is now.

- I should have delayed my rush to liberalism and founded Islam instead. I only had two holy cities and could easily have had a third. I was in no danger of missing liberalism and the free tech is less important than control of a religion. In the end I spread someone elses religion for the third cathedral.

- I cottaged the capital which was probably a mistake - it was a mix of GP farm, wonder builder and cottage city. I probably would have been better to just farm and watermill it and let the other two cities run cottages.

- My third city lacked enough good cottageable terrain - I probably should have put it in a slightly different position. It maximized the floodplains early and had hills for production but required three artist culture bombs to get legendary.

Heh, I replayed from a save before Liberalism, and got the cultural victory in the early 1800s. A bit more tweaking and I'm sure you could get it in the 1700s, even on Emperor.
 
quick makes a big difference on the dates for culture games. each great work is worth more as a percent of the total you need for legendary than it is on other game speeds. on normal they're worth 4k and you need 50k total. on quick they're worth 2680 i think, i know it's more than 2500 and you need 25k total, so 10 GAs and you're past legendary. i love talking civ theory with jesusin, he never makes me feel dumb for my questions and at least one of my oddball things he'd never thought of and actually tried and likes in some situations! *giggle* have fun :)

"-Massuleum of Massallos (I forget correct spelling)"
like three times i called it the Museum of Maussollos when hubby and i were talking about BtS. i don't know history and had never heard of it before and just remembered it wrong (ps i looked up the spelling, had civilopedia open :p). he'd roll his eyes and tell me the real name. so now i call it the Mausoleum of Museums just to annoy him *giggle*.

Hmm, only 25k vs 50k, as quick vs normal, oh yeah and 2680 vs 4000, i remember GA's only giving 2680 :culture: from a few multiplayer games. Hmm yeah I can see how in quick its better to bomb ga's the settle them, thanks for that extra info, I didn't know those exact numbers :high5:

What's funny too, is that untill very recently I always called it 'Museum of Massallos' untill reading one of the posts here I realized actually its not a museum but a 'Mausoleum'. I used to wonder what artwork this 'museum' held :lol:


Since I'm making a post I'll gives a few highlighs from my current game, things seem to be going allright so far.

I did manage to build the pyramids, (after completly clearing every single foreset near my capital)
Spoiler :


heres my capital:
(that last wonder is the temple of artemis, after finishing the pyramids I decided I may as well go for it, and luckily the ai hadn't bulit it yet.
Spoiler :


My second city is about to finish the sistine chapel
Spoiler :


That city on the far left is a barbarian city I captured.
Spoiler :

After I decided to install a new governer I realized how perfect a city location would have been on those plains south of that hill (connecting the corn, gems, copper and pig all in its fatcross), I'm really mad for keeping the barb city and not razing it and settling myself in that ideal location (even tho its not costal). :wallbash:,

Oh well, cant do everything perfectly.
I also missed out on buliding the oracle and the 'museum' of Maussalos, but hey, you can't ever get 'all' the wonders you may want.
 

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Well, I've finished my game, I came just short of my 1800AD target date, but I did get very close. I won a cultural victory on Diety on 1810AD, missed 1800AD by just 5 turns. Anyhow, considering I had some mishaps and this is on Diety level, 1810AD ain't bad, I also had some weird good luck.


Heres some highlights.
Spoiler :


I didn't manage to discover liberalism till 1070AD, but I still was the first to research it and picked nationalism as my free tech.



You can see that I gave birth to a great enginner right before discovering liberalism and rushed the Taj"majal in my thrid Legendary city. (Since it was generated the least amount of culture.)

So after my first golden age, I switch government civivs, things were looking pretty good, and then something rather unexpected happened,

Brennus Declared war on me!



Luckily I just finished researching gunpowder and had a few ormo warriors in the city he attacked me. (and the stupid ai does an amphibious attack, giving me an additional +50% defence bonus against my drill III ormos)


I really had only 1-2 defenders per city at this point and no offensive military at all, although my ormos killed most of Brennus's idiot maceman he tried attacking me with, he had 12 more galleons heading towards my other cities which weren't as well defended, I though I was done, but then a miracle happened.




I couldn't beleive it.
The apoloistic Palace ran a vote to stop to the "war amoung brothers in faith", the VERY SAME turn bennus declared war on me, and it Succeeded! I had only 1 buddist city, and was shocked at this, this was extreamly lucky.
So, for the next 20 turns or so I was paranoid and built up a bunch of ormos in all my cities, (this definately slowed my cultural progress).


So here's my cities circa 1370AD, you can see my top three cities are producing a decent amount of culture, if I can manage to farm enough GA's Ill have this game in the bag.



Not much interesting happens for a few hundred years, I keep farming artists, develop etc. I was able to run a 100% culture rate and still research techs withing 20 turns or so, This screen shows 100% culture slider, but chemistry in 8 turns, not to bad.



Here's why I was able to keep teching:


and since I was running representation, all those artists in my other cities were putting in a base of +4:science: each.

By 1700AD, my cities were producing almost 500 culture each. I bombed a couple artists to even out the # turns to get legendary status.


the (111), (91), (112), I'm not sure what these numbers represent, but I was at about 34 turns to legendary at this point in all threee cities.

By 1765 I was approxiamtly 9 turns from a victory (8 turns, 9 turns, and 13 turns to legendary for my cities, but a Great artist was to be born in 3 turns to even this out)

But then the inevitable happened:


yep, he declares war on me again, and this time instead of macemen/crossbows, he brings a mass amount of Infantry and tanks. I was doomed except that, I was also only ~8 turns from a cultural win.







in the bottom SS, you can I'm about to give birth to my next great artist, which means i have only 7 turns to victory!


Needles to say, Brennus rampaged my costal cities where he decided to land his mass of troops.


I did however manage to pull it off JUST in the Knick of time!



If I was even 2 turns too late, I would have been toast this is was pretty hiliarious and this game came right down to the wire.
I felt like I was singing a merry tune while on titanic about to be sank.

I strongly recommend checking out my saves, its quite something.





 

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That start is quite depressing :help:, but there is room for 3 cities, so a cultural win technically is possible. And hey, all u need to do is pop a hut and get astronomy free to start exploring the rest of the world.
 
Actually, this is turning into one of my favorite games ever. GL + early currency means +8 commerce in every city (they get a +100% bonus for being overseas). With 6 cities, I'm still running the science slider at 70% with barely any markets and no courthouses. Now if only I had a civ like Portugal I would be set, but cheap settlers (3 pop whips) and lots of GPs are keeping me in the game. After I use my GE to rush the GL, it's onto Optics and world domination with Janissaries. Do you guys wanna try it out?

 
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