Dutch East Indiaman: best UU?

[Phoenician]

At this point I have pretty much have tried out all the new UU in BTS and IMO the Dutch East Indiaman is a powerhouse of a ship! If you beeline astronomy fairly early, it takes ages and ages for this fine piece of naval power to go obsolete. I build much less frigates and ship of the Lines because I can rely on my East Indiamens to pick off the rest of the enemies navy! I remember one game I completely decimated 4 large navies (full of troops!). I absolutely love the fact of sending out missionaries/explorers/great people and especially reinforcements for my campaigns without having to worry about some frigates or privateers wiping them out (just add a couple more East Indiaman to the reinforcement stack for needed protection!) And the ability to scout a city and enter enemy terrain without declaring war is invaluable.

[GeneralMatt]

I actually have not ried them yet.

You say East Indiamen can enter other players territory without declaring war? Cool..

[Phoenician]

I been a civ addict since Civ 3 first came out, and this has got to be the most versatile and coolest UU I have ever played with IMO. This unit (if used to its maximum potential assures absolute dominance in the renaissance and industrial age)
Move over England-the Dutch have arrived!

[Bast]

It's decent. It's not better than the Redcoat if that's what you're implying though.

[Phoenician]

Originally Posted by Bast

It's decent. It's not better than the Redcoat if that's what you're implying though.

I would agree with you if the redcoat didn't get so nerfed ! lol
Damn redcoats used to stand a decent chance against infantry with sufficient cannon power (vanilla), now they can't...

I like to have a Courisser army with my East Indiamen, later with Courisser's/Grenadiers/cannons/Ship of the Line, and later upgrade to Cavalry

[GeneralMatt]

I rarely get to curiassers before cavalry for some reason.. Yeah, and I loved redcoats to. But I still play the English simply because I feel most comfortable with them. I do not think I have built a rifleman in a long time.. Redcoats are just too cool

[anduril171]

I would say it's better than the Redcoat... It's dominant for much longer and it's much more of an improvement over the Galleon than the Redcoat is over the Rifleman. Not only is it a full 50% stronger, it also can carry 4 units instead of three.

East Indiaman gives you the ability to dominate the seas for hundreds of years (if you beeline to Astronomy) as well as to gain sight of (and blockade!) any enemy coastal city (which on a water map is most of them) without declaring war.

Combine the East Indiaman with the Dike, and the Dutch absolutely dominate water maps... I had to force myself to play another civ just for variety

[tomaalimosh]

Originally Posted by anduril171

I would say it's better than the Redcoat... It's dominant for much longer and it's much more of an improvement over the Galleon than the Redcoat is over the Rifleman. Not only is it a full 50% stronger, it also can carry 4 units instead of three.

East Indiaman gives you the ability to dominate the seas for hundreds of years (if you beeline to Astronomy) as well as to gain sight of (and blockade!) any enemy coastal city (which on a water map is most of them) without declaring war.

Combine the East Indiaman with the Dike, and the Dutch absolutely dominate water maps... I had to force myself to play another civ just for variety

You can blocade without declaring war ?!?

Can you declare war, and the East Indiaman remains inside the borders? (DOW and unload the army in the middle of his teritory at the same time)?)

[Spearthrower]

You could give the Dutch a UU of a lump of dung on a stick, and they'd still be one of the strongest civs in the game for me thanks to the massive production bonus they get in the latter half of the game from their UB. However, this UU is also extemely powerful and versatile - naturally it does have the downside of being a naval unit which means that it is situational and therefore doesnt help with the most important part of warfare: land combat.

However, its utility is still exceptional.

Add into that Willem's strong traits and really, I think the Dutch are a little over the top.... but that's fine by me because I enjoy playing them a lot! They're the kind of civ I am happy to go up a difficulty notch with.

[MrFelony]

Originally Posted by GeneralMatt

I rarely get to curiassers before cavalry for some reason.. Yeah, and I loved redcoats to. But I still play the English simply because I feel most comfortable with them. I do not think I have built a rifleman in a long time.. Redcoats are just too cool

It's all about grabbing military tactics with liberalism. pump out a bunch of cuirrasaires and then get them experience in a war and beeline to rifles and upgrade them all. i'm attacking LB's and Knights with rifles and cavaliers (on emperor)

[Seras]

it's a great unit but unless you set-up your map to take advantage of it you can end up in a situation where it's useless(ie being landlocked)

i'd say it's too situational to be considered "the best".

[Spearthrower]

I think I have only had 1 landlocked game since BtS came out - well, I say I was landlocked only because the sea was too far away to get there within the first few rounds of cities (playing on super huge map).....

I'd say you're more likely to have to set up your map to make this a disadvantage as only Pangaea really removes the utility of it.

But I generally agree that it is more situational than many UU's.

[CivDude86]

Its always fun (but not useful) to launch a sneak attack with it at least.

[Phoenician]

Originally Posted by Spearthrower

this UU is also extemely powerful and versatile - naturally it does have the downside of being a naval unit which means that it is situational and therefore doesnt help with the most important part of warfare: land combat.

However, its utility is still exceptional.

There is no downside to being a naval unit IMO. In one game I must have destroyed 50+ Galleons and ridiculous amounts of caravels. Some of those Galleons were heading for my country and some were headed towards my allies. If you think about it, not only did I decimated my enemies navies, but I also decimated their armies inside their navies! Naval combat can be more vital than land combat if you make it your objective. Can you imagine how much harder it would have been if I had to actually fight all those combat units one by one?

Fight smarter, not harder.

[Minor Annoyance]

I played a game as the Netherlands and it was a lot of fun moving around the ocean wherever I wanted. Also when I was under Mercantilism I didn't need any open boarders.

[Spearthrower]

Originally Posted by Phoenician

There is no downside to being a naval unit IMO.

I'd have to say that "land" is the downside of being a naval unit!

[GeneralMatt]

Originally Posted by MrFelony

It's all about grabbing military tactics with liberalism. pump out a bunch of cuirrasaires and then get them experience in a war and beeline to rifles and upgrade them all. i'm attacking LB's and Knights with rifles and cavaliers (on emperor)

I get Military Science well enough, I just never seem to want to go for Military Tradition, probably something with me. I do get it though, but I always seem to get Rifling first (I am an infantry type of guy).

[Figaro]

Originally Posted by Seras

it's a great unit but unless you set-up your map to take advantage of it you can end up in a situation where it's useless(ie being landlocked)

i'd say it's too situational to be considered "the best".

Absolutely. Depends on the type of map you play. On a Pangaea, navies just aren't going to play much of a role and your East Indiaman as a result won't have much of an affect. Not as situational and generally better than the Carrack, but as the only other naval UU I don't think of it as being all that great when you consider the Praetorians, Immortals etc. that roam the land.

[pi-r8]

Originally Posted by Spearthrower

You could give the Dutch a UU of a lump of dung on a stick, and they'd still be one of the strongest civs in the game for me thanks to the massive production bonus they get in the latter half of the game from their UB. However, this UU is also extemely powerful and versatile - naturally it does have the downside of being a naval unit which means that it is situational and therefore doesnt help with the most important part of warfare: land combat.

I agree with this. The east indiaman isn't really all that much better than a regular galleon. The extra carrying capacity is nice, but usually I'm only carrying around 1 or 2 units in my galleons, so it doesn't matter much. Likewise, the extra strength is nice, but it's not exactly overwhelming (when I played as the Dutch I lost many EI attacking enemy galleons). The reason it seems good is just that the Dutch are so good on water maps, so the galleon itself is an amazing unit for them.

[TheLastOne36]

Originally Posted by Phoenician

At this point I have pretty much have tried out all the new UU in BTS and IMO the Dutch East Indiaman is a powerhouse of a ship! If you beeline astronomy fairly early

Key word there. Astronomy obseletes so much things that i don't think much people would want to beeline to Astronomy.