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Old Oct 10, 2007, 08:47 PM   #1
Sisiutil
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All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh

All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh
Played with the Beyond the Sword expansion pack



Pre-Game Thread

Starting Position (this post, below)
Regenerated Start: 4000 BC
Round 1: 4000 BC to 3150 BC (34 turns)
Round 2: 3150 BC to 1725 BC (57 turns)
Round 3: 1725 BC to 925 BC (32 turns)
Round 4: 925 BC to 305 BC (30 turns)
Round 5: 305 BC to 625 AD (62 turns)
Round 6: 625 AD to 1150 AD (45 turns)
Round 7: 1150 AD to 1370 AD (34 turns)
Round 8: 1370 AD to 1525 AD (31 turns)
Round 9: 1525 AD to 1742 AD (55 turns)
Round 10: 1742 AD to 1820 AD (39 turns)
Round 11: 1820 AD to 1895 AD (65 turns)
Round 12: 1895 AD to January, 1959 AD(83 turns)
Post Mortem

The idea of the All Leaders Challenge is that I'm going to play a game with each of the Civ IV leaders. With the help of all the posters who participate, I will attempt to make the most of the leader's unique characteristics: traits, starting techs, unit, and building. Aside from the leader, the other game settings are (mostly) kept constant for the sake of comparison. I will post the saved game files, screenshots, and status reports here as the game progresses. Everyone then has a chance to chime in with their strategy ideas, or voice their frustration (or glee) when I make a mistake.

Everyone is invited to offer opinions and advice, and to make your own attempt at playing the same game. But if you do play a "shadow game", I kindly request that you refrain from posting spoilers--i.e. any facts or even hints about the map, opponents, and so on--before I'm there myself. I'm trying to play the game as authentically as possible.

In this ALC game, I'll be playing as Gilgamesh, leader of Sumer. I'm playing the game using the new Beyond the Sword expansion pack, its latest patch (3.13), and Bhruic's unofficial patches as well. The difficulty level is Emperor, the map is Hemispheres, and the speed is Epic.

Here is a look at the initial game settings. Since the Hemispheres map has several additional settings, the easiest way to show them to everyone (and for me to remember them) is to use the Custom Game menu:



I've decided to start playing with some of the optional settings in this game. I chose a fairly minor one to start with: "Choose Religions". This allows the first civ to finish researching a religious tech to choose the religion that is founded as a result. This will make us a little less able to discern the advancement level of an opponent just based upon the religion that is founded. I tried this in an offline game a while back and the most disconcerting result was when Taoism was founded around 2000 BC! I then realized I had lost one of my markers for when the Liberalism race had begun (with the research of Philosophy and the usual founding of Taoism).

I didn't choose any other optional settings because I want to see how the game play pans out with the new patches in place. Also because I'm playing on a new map type for the first time in an ALC game. I also kept the standard number of civilizations for a standard-sized map.

Here's a reminder as to Gilgamesh's unique characteristics:



And, finally, here is the starting position:



A promising start, I think. There's rice, which I can farm as soon as I have a Worker since Sumer starts with Agriculture. The river provides a health bonus and several good tiles for cottages (even if we decide to run a specialist economy, it's usually best to cottage the capital to leverage democracy). There are several forests for health, chopping, or whatever. I also have three Calendar-enabled happy resources nearby that will provide commerce roughly equivalent to towns, especially since two are next to a river.

Dye also enables the built-in +1 from Theatres, and since Gilgamesh is Creative, those cheap buildings are even cheaper for him--good synergy there. I think I'll therefore want to make Drama a priority in the latter part of the early game, and get the Globe Theatre built somewhere so I can whip or draft units from it without penalty. But we have a lot of fish to fry before that will come to be.

To my mind the logical next move is for the Warrior to go one tile north onto the grassland hill. The chief question in my mind is whether or not I settle in place or move the Settler one tile north onto the plains hill for the protection and especially the +1 . The Warrior may reveal if there's anything worth having in the capital's fat cross by moving there. My instincts say there isn't. I would trade some riverside grassland tiles for some unknown tiles and one coastal tile that won't be much use later in the game. That and my experience is telling me to settle in place and to ignore the siren call of the plains hill this time, but I want to hear everyone else's thoughts on the matter, of course, before I make any final decisions.

Another possibility is 1 NW onto the dye tile where the Warrior is now standing. That strikes me as rather dubious, though--I weaken a high commerce tile for coastal access with no seafood in sight.

So I say settle in place, but let's see what everyone else thinks.
Attached Files
File Type: civbeyondswordsave Sisiutil BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave (41.5 KB, 268 views)
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Last edited by Sisiutil; Nov 17, 2007 at 04:42 PM.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 08:53 PM   #2
LightSpectra
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I would say, move the warrior 1E to see if there's a slightly better spot to settle. If not, do so in place.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 09:00 PM   #3
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Agree with LightSpectra. Move one east but unless something amazing. Like gold. Settle in place.

Research Mining a no brainer hear with the hills.

Build Worker first?
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 09:02 PM   #4
zienth
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Your starting location is carefully crafted by the map generator to be above average. I've seldom seen a situation where moving one or two spaces ended up better than the starting location. Your idea of moving the warrior up the hill first sounds like a good plan, but unless you see something like gold or gems, I'd say to just settle in place.

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Old Oct 10, 2007, 09:11 PM   #5
Sisiutil
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Why 1E for the Warrior? Won't 1N reveal more tiles, including the tile 1E of the northernmost dye? IIRC, moving onto the eastern hill won't reveal the tile 2E of there, because the Warrior's view is "blocked" by the forest.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 09:14 PM   #6
MrFelony
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I agree on the mysticism of the pregenerated spot, though often times it is the case that just 2 squares over would have been a MUCH better location. there are a lot of benefits of settling the hill, but then there is also the chance that it has a copper or iron on it, or that horses, copper, or iron are just outside your fat cross to the south.

EDIT: on 1E, it would reveal about the same amount of tiles as 1N would, just in a more eastern fashion and less ocean/coastal tiles. I say just settle in place. you have enough food to work all of the hill tiles (at stagnant population) and a much better chance of getting a strategic resource to pop in the BFC

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Old Oct 10, 2007, 09:26 PM   #7
Jet
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I'd move the warrior north and only settle northwest if it gets you something good (wheat, corn, cows, gems, or seafood).
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:22 PM   #8
Rancid Sushi
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I'd move the warrior 1N. Unless he finds something awesome like gold, I would move the settler 1NW to settle where the warrior started.

Last edited by Rancid Sushi; Oct 10, 2007 at 10:49 PM.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:28 PM   #9
Gliese 581
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Hi, new member here. I've been enjoying these games as well as this forum in general and wanted to comment on this one. Keep up your great work Sisiutil!

I think moving the warrior north is the obvious first step here. As mentioned before, the forest is going to block the view to the east anyhow and moving north should reveal one (or is it two?) grids to the west as well, which could potentially discover resources there that would warrant settling in a western direction, which could be done without using up additional turns.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:48 PM   #10
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That's a solid starting place. Stick with it.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:50 PM   #11
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You have a very strong starting position, with commerce, production, and food. If nothing else, moving 1NW costs 3 base hammers once a levee is built.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:58 PM   #12
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I don't think the hill defense bonus would be worth it for the capital anyways since it rarely gets attacked... but who knows.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:58 PM   #13
Crenor
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I would recommend settling 1NW of your starting location, on the dye tile that your warrior is on now. On a pangea map that would not be a good move, but remember that this is a hemispheres map, and you chose three continents. If you are going for domination, you are going to want to have good cities next to the coast in order to build a lot of ships. Also, founding on the dye tile is no loss, as you could have a town on that tile by the time you research calender. Founding on a commerce resource is much different from founding on a production or food resource, because towns are actually better than the improvements for commerce resources.

The only reservation I have about founding 1NW is that you can't see any of the tiles you would be missing, even if you move the warrior. You could have something really good in those tiles, such as cows. So if you have significant faith in the start generator, then perhaps you should found in place.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:58 PM   #14
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Looks a Calender beeline with all those nice dyes... well depends what the rest of the map looks like.

I wouldn't settle on the plains hill unless I'm playing an Imp Civ and deciding to go Settler 1st build.

Worker first is a good choice, then Tech Mining => BW => Masonry For GW Maybe...
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:02 PM   #15
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Sisiutil: Agree with you, 1N with the warrior, I think this will reveal the most.

Settle in place, the grass is always greener on the other side, but that can be picked up by the next settler. In the currant place the river will protect you on two sides, and if you start by researching mining, that plains hill will yield more hammers from being mined than from being settled (allthough I do know the extra hammer inside town is tempting). Also, if the settler is being moved to the hill, you'll have to wait for a borderpop to be able to work the rice. Settling in place and starting with a worker will speed up populationgrowth, and research kan start at once.

Yeah, I'm new here. Discovered your thread a week ago, and have been reading ever since, through all your previous games. Really great, I have learned a lot (my brain is boiling now ). Really some work you have cut yourself out for.
You've ruined my games, though, kind of boring playing as a chieftess when amongst emporers. But I suppose that if I keep learning from you and all the other posters here, I just might have the guts to bring myself up a level. Scary thought, I'm a very timid viking.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:03 PM   #16
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Move warrior 1N, if nothing amazing, then settle in place. If something amazing, then settle either 1NW, on the dye (I'm a fan of having sea access) or 1N (on the hill), depending on what grabs whatever amazing thing the warrior will have found
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kniteowl View Post
Looks a Calender beeline with all those nice dyes... well depends what the rest of the map looks like.

I wouldn't settle on the plains hill unless I'm playing an Imp Civ and deciding to go Settler 1st build.

Worker first is a good choice, then Tech Mining => BW => Masonry For GW Maybe...
I'm still learning so I'm just wondering why settling the hill would work for an imperialistic settler first build. Would the hill provide additional hammers for the settler (since food does not contribute to the 50% imp settler bonus)?

Thanks
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:07 PM   #18
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Something worth knowing about the start maybe:

Spoiler:
You are isolated
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:16 PM   #19
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Never did understand much about the forest blocking the view thing. Thought the hill itself had to be forested which would make sense. Ie. You can see over the forest from an unforested hill but not through the forest hill or other.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sauce View Post
Something worth knowing about the start maybe:

Spoiler:
You are isolated
I think that could actually work for Gilgamesh, given his traits. Sisiutil's expert scouting will make this easy to deal with early as well.
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