Orion's Home School: Winning at Noble

[Chas]

Originally Posted by Soirana

Chas, you may blame me or Orion or fate, but Ragnar will declare on your in two turns

Well, I think for the moment I will blame Orion and fate, since you are helping me so much

Few things from a save. I would not recommend building wealth. The way my slider is at 100 most of time is cause it is at 0 in others. I sorta imagine i save something due to rounding.
..
Courthouse is not worth building in city with 2gold upkeep. Unhappy citizen should be whipped into temple.

I would certainly not build wealth at the moment. As I said, every city has completed this turn, so instead of deciding what to do I just picked something for each city, temporarily

That disasterous event was random event fueled on Ragnar espionage. How comes he has -2 due to past events.

Sorry, do you mean (a) he currently shows -2 because of the random event or (b) because he was already at -2, the random event occurred?

Religion: AI's are quite simple they take religion which most of their cities have. no point using missionary on ragnar..

OK, I'm probably being stupid, but let's just get this straight:
If, say, Ragnar has 3 cities, 2 of them are Hindu and one Jewish. If I have 3 cities, 2 of them are Confucian, the others have no religion. Neither of us have Organised Religion. Then Ragnar will have -3 rels against me because I have come under the sway of a heathen religion? Is that right?
If that is right, suppose when the first Confucian city gets Confucianism (whether through discovering tech, or by religion spread) and I get asked if I want the +1 happy choice, if I say 'yes', does this make any difference?

I will try some defending actions from your save, just to show it is not end of world. Although i would more like to start at point Ragnar had full hands. No pig city is his, best thing to do is to limit the losses.

Well, you can if it is easy, but I would consider this a lost game now. And I can easily replay the last 75 turns, this time making sure that Oracle comes after Code of Laws, and maybe this time no random event. Because I would like to know whether your game would end up with a Ragnar dow or not (I still think he will, but obviously you don't, and you are much better than me

[Soirana]

Well i edited post before adding about my ragnar and his DoW. I do not think it has anything to do with quality of play.

Religions: let sort out a bit. Organized religion has nothing to do with diplomacy per se. The only thing matters is state religion. You either get bonus for sharing religion or penalty for having different.

Number of cities - simple. Let say AI has two cities in Hindu and one in Buddhism. Predictably it will take Hindu as state religion. That is why religions can be somewhat manipulated.

I will repeat my advice - make your own online game with short periods of play in between of those people could give you advice. Should help more than playing the same map for 50+ times.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by Soirana

Edit: In the end Ragnar decided to fight Jao. So i would say convert to hindu and go on. Use confu missionary on your own city for a chance of extra temple.

Regarding defense actions all i did was tech trade including hunting, teched archery in one turn (had to put city on research) when emergency whiping for archers. Although ragnar appeared just to use indian road system for shortcut. Although his behaviour in general surprised me for good. I will probably stop saying Ai's don't declare in BC's on noble or their efforts are fruitless. (He took holy city of Oporto which gave me thoughts about vikings hiting some random event, like crusade or something, if this is so it would explain why you got declared with Orion's save.)

Edit2: i looked at Orion's game and saves. IMO, Ragnar hits some quest (something like Orion and me hitting horse whispers) much more likely it is greed [for iron, i guess]. So delaying that iron city served better than all gifts.
.

1. If you are bored with this now, no problem
2. If you have time for one more answer: Do you mean in my save game, he dow'd Joao rather than me? And then all the stuff you describe happened? Or did this happen in your game?

In general, Chas, why do not you start your own thread with some map on Noble (there are already few) i am sure some guys would help you with advice and you will learn more than following me or Orion

1. I am playing my own noble game as Willem Oranj at the moment, it is going OK. In general I have been playing in parallel with all this testing stuff on this map
2. You have no idea how much I have learned from trying to parallel you and Orion. Lots and lots of little tactical things, like using whipping and chopping to most effect, use of warriors for exploration, the reasoning for some of the tech sequence etc. I am very grateful to both of you and am very glad that I have done it.
3. Because in all my Noble games I get dow'd and this causes me to lose - either directly from the war, or because it takes so much production to win the war that it ruins my development and economy. This is exactly what has also happened in my replays on this map. So actually I am learning what I really need to know - at least 1 way, on 1 map, to develop without war ruining everything. This is a tricky balancing act, and it seems to me the main thing to get mastered.

I will post detailed questions elsewhere from now on, no reason why you have to be my sole source of knowledge. But thanks for what you have already told me.

4. If you are going to stop now, no problem. But I have now replayed the last 75 turns, and it is now much more like yours. So I got the Great Scientist, I have not had Ragnar spies destroying Delhi so my commerce and research are about the same as yours. Also I got the tech sequence right, so I did get CS with Oracle. Differences are:
- Again I saved the turn I got Alphabet, which this time is turn 145, 425BC, 3 turns later than you.
- I forgot to chop/mine in the 4th 'pig' city (Patal) when building the monument, so it hasn't grown yet.
- I did take out a local barbarian city, but it was only pop 2 and went to ruins. I have 4 chariots now.
- I attach a save in case you are interested in looking, but as it is very similar to yours, there is no need.
- If you do intend to continue with your game I would still be very interested to see how it goes, but of course there is no obligation on you to carry on.

[Soirana]

Originally Posted by Chas

1. If you have time for one more answer: Do you mean in my save game, he dow'd Joao rather than me? And then all the stuff you describe happened? Or did this happen in your game?

your save Surprisingly he went for Jao. I do believe he trigers some sort of quest.

Originally Posted by Chas

If you do intend to continue with your game I would still be very interested to see how it goes, but of course there is no obligation on you to carry on.

There was no obligation to start either. I played next one. Will post soon.

[Soirana]

Fro start i must say Orion did very good job in his thread. Nice writing up, differently from mine.
To AD310.

Spoiler:

Turn 142 - started on Metal casting, I think i will have make detour to calendar just for happy faces,
Pataliputra starts workboat (will be whipped next turn, I trade extra pigs to Jao for clam), Bombay switches to settler, and puts scientists down to floodplains. I need settler and have not so much to do with great scientist. Also put espionage fully on Jao. I doubt spies will ever matter.
turn 143 - Ragnar demands cancel deal with Jao. I decided not. Whip settler for iron.

Nice things BUG mod shows.

jao and ragnar hates each other, while i can spend some time for infrastructure.

turn 144 sell priesthood to Ragnar for 50gold.
turn 147 started calendar and a forge in a Delhi. I probably will spam forges through all empire.
turn 148 got extra advancement event

notice japanese unit bellow, so old jerk Tokugawa finally opened borders.

Also iron city is found, would be lots of better 1S but i already delayed iron
too much.


I also sent extra charriot and worker to barb city, whip forge in Dheli, now i will have +50 for beuro+25for forge.
Since iron is already roaded I am within one mine to some axes.
Tokugawa converted to hindu.
Well, See screenshot. Ragnar is finally doing favor for me and Toku clearly has metals.

152-Converted to hindu, Calendar in, started construction
155 - my workboat meets Stalin. also Jao come asking for polytheism which i gave.
156 - Jao only now starts mining the gold.

157- construction in, started machinery - final tech for maces. Hit a deal with Stalin -Corn for pigs, gems for wine. I have not spare ones, but with granaries and forges I am gaining on hapinness and health. Anothe vinery is loosing cultural battles, I will end that thing with maces.
161-jao ask to convert to Confu, why not if spiritual, I also ask for favor same turn get that stupid hunting for free.


Ragnar also spends some effort to make me Hindu.

168-machinery in some cats are already ready. I am already above Ragnar in power and back to Hindu. Now, i will chop few maces and kill him.
Started engineering for trebs
172-Jao gets Great scientist I trade Maths to ragnar for mono and archery and somegold. i do not have tech monopoly and Ragnar is technically dead.
179-finally met gilgamesh
Last AI, must admit it is quite a company.

180-met barb sword, nothing whip could not solve. Must admit i did have some problems with barb spear about a time i hooked iron.
182-Get some trade with Ragnar - Construction for meditation and HBR, bulb theology. Well, that barb city is a holy one of christianity. I get access to trebs, get great prophet. bulb theocracy switch to judaism+theocracy. mainly to get CRII Maces in a capitol.
Also made bunch of arrogant demands resulting in heap of gold.
Start paper, could use some maps (if anyone trade me one)
185-first cottages maturing to towns
186-Ragnar actually declares on me. Stupid one.
my stack
Okay picture refused to load - 6cats+10maces. With reinforcements coming.
187-Jao builds great lighthouse. I conquer holy city of judaism.
189-paper in(and no maps), switch to feudalism to speed conquest by vassalizing.
191-burn Birka - simple i have no wish to leave bunch of axes behind me.
194-ragnar capital is captured(easier than Birka), i get great general, soon to be a medic chariot

I started loosing more money on upkeep, but given general tech rate i can probably destroy everything with maces. Will need some boats sooner or later, but game is done. I need just spam units and kill opponents.