We know watermills can be made good, but what about windmills?

[Monkeyfinger]

I only use these in commerce cities if all the flat town squares are being worked and if mines on the hills would cause the surplus food to run out. It lets the city grow to its cap and throws in a few extra .

In production cities they have no place. 2 of these on a grassland hill + a workshopped grassland is food neutral and gets you 7 hammers. A farmed grassland + 2 mined hills gets you 8 hammers, neutral food, and more quickly grows the 3 population points necessary to work all those tiles due to the farm.

They aren't totally useless, but they do strike me as the clear worst tile improvement. Anyone disagree?

[50_dollar_bag]

Usually I'll build them in fishing towns with a couple of seafood and plains hills to get a bit of production out of them. Otherwise like you said they only get built to balance out a 1 shortage.

[Stylesrj]

WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!! (sorry had to put it in at some point)

Windmills have no place in my empire. I only mine the hills because it provides production and has a small chance of finding a resource which can help Mining Inc.

[vilemerchant]

Originally Posted by Monkeyfinger

In production cities they have no place. 2 of these on a grassland hill + a workshopped grassland is food neutral and gets you 7 hammers. A farmed grassland + 2 mined hills gets you 8 hammers, neutral food, and more quickly grows the 3 population points necessary to work all those tiles due to the farm.

Instead of the farm how about 1 watermill, 1 windmill and 1 workshopped grassland. With SP that gets you the 8 hammers with 1 more food than the farm and mines.

[bonafide11]

I usually build Windmills in commerce cities...

[Blaarg]

Wouldn't it be better to build cottages on hills?

[Soneji]

But cottages on hills look soooo silly!

[King of Town]

With all the eventual bonus that windmills get I think you can get like 4 or 5 commerce from them, plus the food, so it is like a cottage or village on a hill but with more food coming in. On grassland hills I usually mine ( unless near a river) and on plains hills I always windmill unless i have a massive excess of food.

[DrewBledsoe]

Originally Posted by Soneji

But cottages on hills look soooo silly!

Thought that was all there was in Scotland

[obliterate]

Originally Posted by Monkeyfinger

I only use these in commerce cities if all the flat town squares are being worked and if mines on the hills would cause the surplus food to run out. It lets the city grow to its cap and throws in a few extra .

In production cities they have no place. 2 of these on a grassland hill + a workshopped grassland is food neutral and gets you 7 hammers. A farmed grassland + 2 mined hills gets you 8 hammers, neutral food, and more quickly grows the 3 population points necessary to work all those tiles due to the farm.

That is only after biology. Plus you aren't taking into account commerce or if you are able to build farm due to lack of excess of fresh water.

When you have a lot of hills in your city radius, (highlands) they can be useful to allow you to work as many tiles as possible.

They do provide food, hammers and commerce so they are versatile improvement.

[0R4NG3]

I find that windmills+watermills are a good substitute for farms+mines, they provide the same amount of food, about the same amount of hammers, but more commerce. The problem is that it is not often that you have a city that has alot of river tiles and alot of hills. I probably have 1 or 2 cities like this every game.

[Zongo]

I find that both windmills and environmentalism are grossly underpowered.

Windmills get a +2 commerce bonus under environmentalism.
Maybe this could be raised to 1 food and 2 commerce.

The current situation is:
Grassland Hill 1F 1P 0C
G.Hill+Mine+Rail 1F 4P
G.Hill+W.Mill 2F 2P 2C
G.H.+W.M.+Env 2F 2P 4C

Changing to:
G.H.+W.M.+Env 3F 2P 4C

would make windmills more interesting for environmentalism, without breaking the game. Windmills would not only compensate a bit the economic damage of not running free market, but would also sustain the population.

We could interpret it as a drive toward greener tecnologies that the market itself would shun, but that would allow for a more sustainable (i.e. bigger in the long run) society when enforced by an initial large public investment (i.e. switching to environmentalism and replacing mines).

If it were only the commerce part, no player would build windmills since they will never make up for the loss of free market, and no player would willingly switch to environmentalism, if not through the UN and to crush the global economy .

Alternatively, environmentalism could be pumped by reducing the global warming proportionally to the percentage of the global population running environmentalism.
That would mean by the way that if the UN passes environmentalism for all, then you can freely nuke away enemy lands to your heart content, without global repercussions to your land (unless they nuke you back, of course).

[Stylesrj]

Why can't factories and stuff cause global warming while nuking causes nuclear winter?
That way, if you have too many factories, you give good ol' Monty a smoking crater of a civilization! (that's if you're one of those people who let Monty live that long)

[Swedishguy]

Windmills are good if you have a financial leader, preferably built next to a river.

[thomson_2001]

yeah i agree with swedish guy. i found in my last game when i was financial that the are VERY nice. if you use them to drive a SE you could run an engineer off the extra food over two hills. granted its not same as the hammers from mine but it can help generate extra great person points by running a specialist. that plus in some circumstances you cant work the mines as your city isnt big enough. a windmill is good in those circumstaces as can grow in order to work the mine.

[Diamondeye]

Windmills are okay if you have some grassland hills, resulting in a straight food balance. Also, they are nice for new cities lategame, where you haven't got the time for cottages to grow and need some food for the city to get going, along with hammers.

[Lord_Zath]

I don't use them much. I prefer the chance to get resources

[Blaarg]

Originally Posted by Lord_Zath

I don't use them much. I prefer the chance to get resources

I agree

[Swedishguy]

Remember that you don't have to Windmills OR Mines. A blending of the both might be the solution.

[Crighton]

Originally Posted by Stylesrj

Why can't factories and stuff cause global warming while nuking causes nuclear winter?
That way, if you have too many factories, you give good ol' Monty a smoking crater of a civilization! (that's if you're one of those people who let Monty live that long)

I've questioned that a few hundred times in the past.

Side note: I've seen Monty toss 32 tactical nukes in the span of seven turns on a late start one game. Global warming sucked big time after that.