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Old Nov 08, 2007, 06:38 PM   #101
Nikis-Knight
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While we're looking at civics, how about moving sac the weak back to Infernal Pact? It was put on the veil founding tech to help them compensate for the spread of hell, but that was when the same tech brought the Infernals in. Then we moved the Infernal tech back, but kept sac the weak up front (unlike other religions).
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Old Nov 08, 2007, 06:51 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikis-Knight View Post
While we're looking at civics, how about moving sac the weak back to Infernal Pact? It was put on the veil founding tech to help them compensate for the spread of hell, but that was when the same tech brought the Infernals in. Then we moved the Infernal tech back, but kept sac the weak up front (unlike other religions).
will do.
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Old Nov 08, 2007, 07:53 PM   #103
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I'm not sure the Council needs a requirement of way of the wicked on Deception (especially since it's counterpart doesn't have a similar requirement.)
Perhaps a requirement of philosophy, or maybe nothing, that's a fairly late tech.

So for their follow up techs, maybe Redeeming Light and Conspiracy of Shadows. Not sure what to put there though looking forward to everyone's ideas.
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Old Nov 08, 2007, 08:17 PM   #104
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I like the names.

Redeeming light--
-Allows the "Justice and Honesty" cultural value civic. This gives double trade route yeild, and a diplomacy bonus with all other civs of your religion. Also an extra happiness from the temple of the empyrean and citadel of light. Low upkeep.
-Allows the "Illuminator" unit. Is a disicple with 5 strength +2 lightning. Has nomad. Also can see invisible and sentry. Ecclesiates can upgrade into these.
-Allows the citadel of light building (we'll give the malakim something else, don't worry). It doubles the cultural defense of the city, and gives -50% war weariness, +2 xp for new units, and allows a priest. +1 culture.
-Gives +1 trade routes in all cities.

Conspiracy of Shadows:
-The "Shadows and Thieves" economy civic. This gives -10% gold in all cities, but +4 xp for recon units. No upkeep. +1 free specialist for each town in a city's radius.

eh i'll finsih these ideas in the morning, gtg atm.

Last edited by loki1232; Nov 08, 2007 at 08:26 PM.
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Old Nov 08, 2007, 08:26 PM   #105
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Quote:
-The "Shadows and Thieves" economy civic. This gives -10% gold in all cities, but +4 xp for recon units. No upkeep. +1 free specialist for each town in a city's radius.
Huh... sounds way too strong at first glance, but I kinda like it...
At the moment there are no religious civics for government or cultural values, so maybe Shadows and Thieves could be Government... Shadow Government is way too obvious, but something similar in intent.
Increased maitenance and the free specialist per town... or maybe:
Towns -2 gold, 1 free specialist per town in city radius, bonus XP to assassins; that sounds pretty good to me right now.
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Old Nov 09, 2007, 02:49 AM   #106
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I like it. It's not really more powerful than the Empyrean one, IMO.
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Old Nov 09, 2007, 08:41 AM   #107
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108. Added the equipment mechanic (testing right now just with Orthus's Axe).
Good timing--I've seen Barbatos summons kill units with the axe, it'll be nice if they leave it behind when they vanish.
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Old Nov 09, 2007, 05:15 PM   #108
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What about a theif specialist? I think we could use one to show the shadow economy of the Esus civs.
And then a great theif unit as well.
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Old Nov 09, 2007, 06:26 PM   #109
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I uploaded a new version in the first post. Be sure to delete your old "Fall from Hevaen 2 030" directory before you install it. Let me know if you have any problems (Im especially interested to hear if Loki and Woodelf can run it).
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Old Nov 09, 2007, 09:27 PM   #110
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Alazkan is wicked, especially sinice he can cast mirror and attack on the same turn. I'll need to play a bit more, but I think his mirror should maybe get a couple points less str.
(And btw, he doesn't start with elf.)
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Old Nov 11, 2007, 08:26 AM   #111
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I'm finding the guilds rather useless. Mostly the guild of the nine. What if the owner of the HQ of the guild of the nine got a gold bonus for every mercenary in the world?

(also honor and deception aren't granting disciples)
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Old Nov 11, 2007, 06:55 PM   #112
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I'm glad you liked my idea to give all heroes equipment. I would like to see a possibility of an equipment breaking if it was used against another equiped unit.
Perhaps each round of combat each equipment has a 5% chance of breaking. That chance is reduced if the equipment is being weilded by a hero, and increasd if it is beign wielded against a hero. I think that once it breaks in a combat round, then a pop-up will appear, and the rest of combat will be resolved with one of the units at lower strength.

Or you could have it so that the civ hero equipments are the "relics" of that civ--and that if you collect of them present in the game then you win. (make them indestructible then). In this case the elohim could also get a bonus, like the position of all equipments in the world revealed.

Also, what about unique forts/castles/citadels for each civ?
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Old Nov 11, 2007, 08:00 PM   #113
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Yeah I definitly like the idea of rewarding players for killing heroes with cool equipment. Equipment breaking doesnt sound like much fun. And I am nowhere near considering civ based forts since Im not even sure these forts will stay.
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Old Nov 11, 2007, 09:13 PM   #114
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Fair enough about equipment breaking. I just like the image of magical swords clashing. And then one snapping in half with a shower of multicolored sparks, etc.

So what about the idea of winning if you can collect all of the equipment in the game?

Yeah i also understand about the forts.

So anyways some more general hero equipment ideas:
Loki (mask)--can travel in rival territory and cast charm person.
Losha (vial of poison)--extra poison strength, marksman.
Rantine (skullhilt sword)--unit gets +40% versus orcs, +40% city attack.
Magnadine (greatsword)--unit get +2 attack strength, can hire mercenaries.
Alakazan (cloak)--unit becomes invisible, has shadow affinity II.
black Wind (cannon)--naval unit gets +3 first strikes, +20% city bombard.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 02:30 AM   #115
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Wilboman (Really Big Club of Bashing) -- Gives + 3 Ice strength, tundra defense offense bonus like Illians.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 05:47 PM   #116
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I mean yeah, basically.

The question arises for heroes like Abashi. Maybe a Dragon's Skull could be hauled back to one of your cities to give + culture and - war weariness?

For mage heroes, generally their staves or grimoires I'd say.

OH, idea!! What if a hero's equipment was made more powerful if that hero was more powerful? I'll use Govannon to illustrate this.
Govannon's equipment is his Spellbook. It may be given to any unit, and that unit with be able to cast level I spells. The spells allowed by the spellbook are the level I spells that govannon could cast last time he had the spellbook.

Or Kael Coalbane's grimoire. It gives any summonerer or conjurer free spells, based on the spells that Kael knew when he last had the grimoire.

but this works for any other piece of equipment too. Generally, I think we could have 4 levels of each equipment.
Level 1 is what the hero starts with. Level 2 is what the equipment becoems when the hero gets combat II. Level 3 at Combat IV. Level 4 at heroic defense or attack II.

So i'll use orthus' axe to demonstrate this.
level 1: +1 fire
level 2: +1 movement
level 3: Blitz
level 4: +1 fire again

so if orthus gets to combat V, but is then killed, his axe will permanently give its bearer +1 fire, +1 move, blitz.

Or the Empty Bier. (donal lugus)
level 1: +1 defense
level 2: bodygaurd
level 3: +1 defense
level 4: resists fire and unholy damage

I know that this is a lot more design work, but i think it would be worth it because it shows that the equipment is linked to the hero. Also it wouldn't be too hard, because we really only need three simple effects for each equipment, and one would be duplicated. (or some equipments could have fewer levels)
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 05:50 PM   #117
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I can see myself feeding warriors to Orthus just to get his axe up to full strength before killing him so i get the most powerful item i can from him.

I think that each equipment would be best with consistent effects.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 05:55 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlazkanAssassin View Post
I can see myself feeding warriors to Orthus just to get his axe up to full strength before killing him so i get the most powerful item i can from him.

I think that each equipment would be best with consistent effects.
true, reminds me of some crazy friends playing diablo2 or wow and doing the same quest a thousand times, just because there is a chance that a special item drops. i could never understand the fun in this.
and i think we should not intentionally implement things which then become repetitive exploitable, loosing its intentional function.

while feeding orthus with warriors, while he gets the same bonus alive for his axe, then its not even that good idea to feed him, is it?
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 06:37 PM   #119
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Should the heroes be able to give away their equipment? I think not, I think it should only drop on their deaths.
And therefore, the effect should always be something that the hero unit has innate. A point or points of typed strength if taking their weapon, etc.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 07:00 PM   #120
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Yeah i agree. I was thinking of the chances of an equipment being stolen.
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