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Old Dec 11, 2007, 05:09 AM   #441
Aroldo
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Alchemy could have been spiced up rather than dumped. Think the other changes are ok.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 05:17 AM   #442
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8. Removed the No School System civic (boring).
No school is not boring
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 06:12 AM   #443
Dogfax
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Can't say I disagree with any of the cuts.. looking 4ward to getting my hands on this on the 16th
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 06:25 AM   #444
Bob Morane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gandhi rules View Post
No school is not boring
Ha ha ha ...
Go ask children working in China, Africa, or any other part of the world who are "enjoying" poor education systems!!

Sorry for being off topic, this kind of post really irritates the teacher i am.

Well, speaking of the game, i won't miss anything but the patriarch. Council is nice, but only for 2 of the 7 religions, there is nothing for the others now.

Mhh, the removed units were clearly some of the less often used, however I hoped arcebus would be removed. I never liked gunpowder in med-fan worlds.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 06:30 AM   #445
EugeneStyles
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I am OUTRAGED that there wasn't enough stuff to be outraged about!

Only unit I'll really miss is the Shield Wall. I kinda liked those guys. Flurries were strong, but they felt a little overpowered at times. Hopefully it will be a little easier to get the Blitz promotion on something like War Chariots to make up for no more Flurries...

The other stuff was mostly dead-weight. I'd rather have *more* civic options than less, but the Education branch was pretty boring anyway. Patriarch was silly IMHO. Council and Cult aren't gone, just changed.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 06:44 AM   #446
Rhymes
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I only have one concern, i hope that the removed techs were replaced by other, or that the cost of the remaining techs has been increase. I wouldn't want the speed of the game going faster then it already did.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 07:05 AM   #447
xanaqui42
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Sorry, not outraged



Seriously, here are the things I'll miss:

Arcane Golem - but it's pretty rare that I've used this unit.

Shield Wall - Back in Light, I really liked Shield Wall (since it was a research-cheap effective attacker), but I haven't really used the Fire version much, at all.

Twisted Spire - Twisted Spire is nice for the money, but there are other places that similar bonuses could be put.

The item removed that I use most frequently is probably the Orc Slaying promotion. However, it's a rare game that I select it more than 5 times, and it's pretty rare that it makes a large difference.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 07:11 AM   #448
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Hmm, i think that these things makes it better.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 07:15 AM   #449
TheJopa
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I wont miss shield wall or pikemen, or heavy crossbow, in fact I ASKED Kael to do so a while ago And flurry being civ specific archer with blitz is really cool, just hope it gets boosted up a bit, I never used it really because of dead-end tech and blitz being kindda useless with only 2 movement (okay, upgradeable to 3)

I agree with removing of slaying promotions, but maybe you could consider returning them as event-only promotions (whenever units kills orc, elf, dwarf, or event when at war with their civ, that makes all new units in that city start with slaying promotion)

And yeah, could you please reconsider the name Champion? It should be reserved to national unit. Not a big deal really, but also not a big deal to tweak.

I'm interested where did Alchemy Lab go?

Al in the all, not really a reason to be outraged
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 07:22 AM   #450
kumquatelvis
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I hope they re-use the artwork for shield wall. It was definitely my favorite.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 07:43 AM   #451
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i agree with removing the orc/elf/dwarf slaying promotion, but i think it is an interesting game mechanic that could be used with mutation, or autimaticly given to a select few units specific to a civilization, no big deal either way.

the one thing i don't like is having crossbowman a tier 4 archer unit, (especaily for the elves). I just think that the longbow and crossbow are way to different and the crossbow is not exactly more deadly then the longbow. I would say if we must have longbows upgraded to crossbows you should give the longbow an extra 1st strike or 2 (a longbowman should be able to shoot more arrows per min then a crossbow).
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 07:57 AM   #452
Frallan_PrU
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Only thing I dont like is the Longbowman / Crossbowman thingy. A Longbowman unit was Way more efficiant than a x-bow unit (historically) but the ease of training the x-bowmen won out. i think this should play out in the game as well with Longbowmen having a bitt better attack and some more defence bonus but at a Steep price (exept for Elves) and x-bow men on the cheapo lets say a 3 to 1 ratio or so between em. That way for a given amout of prod the crossbowmen would win out but in a unit to unit comparison the longbowmen win out...
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:04 AM   #453
GoodSarmatian
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What a disappointment.
I was really looking forward to being outraged but I think most of the stuff that's removed was redundant anyway.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:04 AM   #454
felwar
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Well, unit wise I understand the changes. I had actually started using pikemen a bit because the AI likes to build huge stacks of chariots now. Moving crossbowmen though... I always preferred them to longbowmen for defense because the research path for engineering actually had other benefits, as opposed to "just-another-new-unit-tech."

The tech tree changes are hard to gauge though. I'm assuming some things were added or moved, but without knowing where they ended up or what the tree looks like now, I think it's kind of moot. It's like posting half the changes and asking us to comment on them.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:08 AM   #455
Serthorn
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I also do not like having crossbowmen as t4 units, especially as a longbowmen upgrade. They always seemed to be more or less equal to me– some civs could use longbow, other use crossbow – just like axmen/swordsmen choice for a different civs. I also think that arqebus, cannon or other gunpowder units should be restricted to dwarfs only.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:13 AM   #456
Jarlaxle135
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All in all, not too outraged. If anything, I would agree with the poster above who wanted arquebus removed (and cannons too.) They really don't fit and I only build them because they can make a difference between living and dying. Hopefully, something new and exciting will replace them...wish I was creative.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:13 AM   #457
3voices
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elves shouldn't have crossbowmen
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:17 AM   #458
Kael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wicshade View Post
i agree with removing the orc/elf/dwarf slaying promotion, but i think it is an interesting game mechanic that could be used with mutation, or autimaticly given to a select few units specific to a civilization, no big deal either way.

the one thing i don't like is having crossbowman a tier 4 archer unit, (especaily for the elves). I just think that the longbow and crossbow are way to different and the crossbow is not exactly more deadly then the longbow. I would say if we must have longbows upgraded to crossbows you should give the longbow an extra 1st strike or 2 (a longbowman should be able to shoot more arrows per min then a crossbow).
The flurry is an elven UU that replaces the crossbowmen for them. So the elves dont get crossbowmen, they get their blitzing attacker archer.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:45 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Civkid1991 View Post
so does this mean other religions will have a council or will different religions connect with the 2 existing councils according to alignment?
The latter, councils aren't limited to a certain religion, just started by one.

I think there is more outrage about Kael's name change.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 08:47 AM   #460
Black Whole
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I am not too outraged about some removals but there are three things which I really don't like:
1) All the cuts concerning the Luchuirp. They are (or were now) my favorite civ because the golems could be differentiated into attackers or defenders. Now they aren't that flexible. I hope they get something new.

2) The Patriarch. My favorite way to spice up the mid to end game has gone now.

3) The Twisted Spire. The category of wonders which grant great Prophets becomes smaller and smaller. I hope it comes back, improved as you said.
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