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Old Nov 26, 2007, 09:47 AM   #161
Ekolite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grillick View Post
If I had to guess, I'd say archer.
It isn't archers, there are archers in the screenshots. It wouldn't be mounted, what would the hippus be without their horses. My guess is the beast class or possibly the lightbringer being moved into a different class and its current class being removed. (does it seriously have a class of it's own?)

I'mm not sure I really like the name of their priests though, I think 'vicar' sounds too christian.
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 09:51 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Kol.7 View Post
It isn't archers, there are archers in the screenshots. It wouldn't be mounted, what would the hippus be without their horses. My guess is the beast class or possibly the lightbringer being moved into a different class and its current class being removed. (does it seriously have a class of it's own?)

I'mm not sure I really like the name of their priests though, I think 'vicar' sounds too christian.
UNIT_CLASS doesn't mean a whole line of unit types, its a single unit (and every Unique version of it).

For example, the UNITCLASS_ADEPT got the units UNIT_IMP and UNIT_ADEPT.
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 10:21 AM   #163
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Replace vicar with lightbringer and that's it
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 12:20 PM   #164
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Yeah, I already said that but people kept assuming he meant unitcombat.


Personally I would prefer a larger, more complicated tech tree but one with mostly "or" requirements and where many of the techs have alignment and/or religious restrictions (for example, good civs couldn't research Necromancy, but neutral or evil could. Only evil could research Malevolent Designs). You should never be in the position of having every tech researched. Actually, I would love it if knowledge of certain techs made others unavailable, and/or if some techs could be un-learned if you went down a different path (for example, researching Corruption of Spirit would mean that you no longer had Righteousness) Of course, this could get rather cluttered and might not be noob-friendly.

One thing I really wish is that the and/or logic (for techs, buildings, civics, units, rituals, etc,) were a little better (this has bugged me since I first looked at the xml for Vanilla Civ IV). You should be able to require something like (((A and B) or C) and (D or E)) or F or (A and G) instead of just A and (B or C). Ideally, this should go for tech, resource, building, alignment, and religion prerequisites, and combinations of multiple prerequisite types. Of course, I realize this could be quite hard to implement in XML and that you could do it already in Python, but adding a specific block for every unit could get really messy, and it would be hard to know when and why you can't build certain units if the civilopedia and the mouse-overs can't give you a reason. I know it would probably be a difficult (of not impossible), radical reworking of the format of the xml files, but such a change would be greatly appreciated, and would probably quickly find its way into other mods.


Mentioning the frustrations of using python blocks instead of just xml prereqs reminded me of one other annoying thing. Is there any way to know if a wonder/worldunit is still available when you are deciding whether to research its tech? You can see in the tech screen if a religious tech will still found its religion, but I find the inability to know if a wonder/hero granting tech is still useful to be quite annoying. A way to see if these are still available would also be greatly appreciated.
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 12:39 PM   #165
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Also some way to prevent your perma-ally from getting Sphener while you could build him faster and use him more intelligently
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 12:41 PM   #166
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F9 and go to the Wonders section. (Same Tab as Best 5 cities)

Tells you who built each Wonder and if you know the city, tells you which city
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 12:42 PM   #167
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No world units though
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 12:42 PM   #168
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Yeah, in general I don't think that the game should stop you from assigning a city to build a wonder/world unit just because your permanent ally decided to build it somewhere stupid.

I'll have to check the top 5 cities more often then. For some reason I assumed that only included that information if you already had contact with the civ that owns the city, or only if you had enough espionage on that civ (which would be impossible in in modded .25, but I went ahead and copied the BtS espionage mission file and made several buildings grant espionage points)

Still, some way to tell if world units have been built would be very helpful. It would also be nice if the tech screen itself would tell you if a specific wonder or world unit was already built, but I guess you can't get everything you want.

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Old Nov 26, 2007, 12:50 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagisterCultuum View Post
Yeah, in general I don't think that the game should stop you from assigning a city to build a wonder/world unit just because your permanent ally decided to build it somewhere stupid.
Agreed!...
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 05:59 PM   #170
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Aye, it could prove quite useful for a mod-modder to find old copies from each stage to implement everything. But personally, I am pretty happy to see most of the changes. Though I dread the loss of an entire unitclass! (please don't be recon! Let it be Melee )
Actually, Kael wants to cut non-combat unit class (workers and settlers), that way we can prolong the exploration phase of the game much longer.

...

Yeah, okay, I'm joking, Cultuum and Grey Fox are right, it is specific units.
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 06:52 PM   #171
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I could see it being quite enjoyable to have all tiles improve depending on how they are worked by the city, and which specialists the city might be running (if they try to) with no chance of selecting what to build with workers

And completing a quest to settle an area, or being forced to take over Barbarian and enemy towns could prove intriguing (make goody huts become cities instead of spawning settlers? Could cause someone to be afraid of taking goody huts too far from home )
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 07:33 PM   #172
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Well, if that were the case, then I'd say that FfH would really need to incorporate a raze city/disband building mod. Actually, I take that back; theres no "if" about it, the ability to destroy buildings and abandon your own cities needs to be added anyway.

While were on the subject, there are probably several other mods that would be great merged with FfH/ have some of their mechanics shamelessly stolen. I know I would love to have tech diffusion, AI autoplay, and the ability to switch civs at any time at the stroke of a key from the Revolution mod. (I know that last one might diminish the importance of summoning Hyborem/Basium yourself, but I don't mind. It might even allow for the current switching mechanism to be removed, simplifying the game.) Also needed are more logical colonization rules. (Needing two cities on the same, unconnected continent makes no sense. The Lanun, for example, should be able to liberate all their landlocked cities and keep all the coats for themselves. I would probably be best just to make it so you could liberate any city, one at a time, to form a new colony and then and gift/liberate the other cities to that colony. Oh yeah, why can't can't you gift a city to a vassal, only liberate certain ones? Also, why can't you influence your permanent allies' civics/religion?)

I wouldn't have brought any of this up, but I have no idea how to merge the SDK files such mods require. I understand that there are probably more important things to do than implement these changes in .30, and that the time is short, but they would be awesome additions to .31

Last edited by MagisterCultuum; Nov 26, 2007 at 07:43 PM.
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:35 PM   #173
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Amen to all of that. Plus utility mods (Sevomod!). Much more work to do, which is why the team is probably pretty glad to be nearing the point where they will have the chance to do such things (after Ice. Maybe... ;P).

That is, if they don't just ditch us as soon as the product is completed and go make it an officially liscenced game for the $500 a copy that they now know they can get
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 11:29 AM   #174
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What are the Council of esus and the empyreans affect on alignment?
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 03:16 PM   #175
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I imagine they will function like OO and RoK.

Also, will the religions help a certain aspect of the city? e.g. AShen Veil- Research, RoK- Gold, etc.
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 03:22 PM   #176
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I would imagine maybe:

Esus - shifts from Neutral to Evil (no effect on Good or Evil). Boosts Espionage points

Empy - Shifts from Neutral to Good (no effect on Good or Evil). Boosts... Production speed of buildings? (Or maybe GPP)

Just to flesh out all possible options.
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 03:34 PM   #177
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Yeah but changing neut to good has no benfit to them. All good + neut civs can be in the overcouncil and I'd imagine that all evil and neut civs can join the undercouncil. Surely the empy would want to ocnvery evil to good or neut tto get them in the council?
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 03:42 PM   #178
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I think that the council of esus would bring you one step towards evil (good to neutral and neutral to evil) and vise versa for empyrean
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:52 PM   #179
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Kael, or any other team member, On Nov. 23rd you brought us details of the Empyrean and the Overcouncil, On Nov. 30th you will bring us details on the Council of Esus and the Undercouncil, and finally on Dec 7th you will talk about the Guilds. My question is when, or if, are we going to get any information on the changes to the Sidar, Svartalfar, Malakim or Balseraphs? Two of these nations have never been playable before and i am dying to know what you have planned for them, but don't see a date scheduled where you are going to talk about them.
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 08:10 PM   #180
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Shifting Neutral to Good (/Evil) but not affecting already Evil (/Good) civs doesn't make much sense. A Good (/Evil) religion tolerates evil, but not neurality? Wierd. Especially since that means an evil civ could found the Empyrean, convert to it, and build the Day of Day (um, I mean the Dies Diei, I didn't mean to translate it) to found the Overcouncil, but would be excluded from all its decisions. Assuming the Undercouncil works in generally the same way, it would likewise be illogical for a Good civ to work to build an AP equivalent that could then be used by their enemies to force every one into war with them, without giving them any say in the matter.

I agree with kenken244 that the Empyrean should shift Evil civs to Neutral and Neutral civs to Good (leaving Good Civs Good, obviously), and that the Council of Esus should likewise shift its followers one step towards Evil.
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