Any one miss Rubber and Saltpepper?

[Tecibbar]

I don't know why they are taken out. It seems that with more strategical resources, would allow diverse units, more strategies, etc.

Any thoughts?

[Tully Bascombe]

Peter.
Saltpeter.


I'm not sure why they were removed, although it may have been to keep the game map from getting too cluttered.

[gps]

Originally Posted by Tecibbar

Any thoughts?

Hmmm, I think in historical terms saltpeter was not that crucial as strategic ressource as coal and oil are. I don't know a realworld civilization that was unable to use gunpowder because of the lack of saltpeter. It also made the game a bit frustrating if your neighbours had it and you did not. So I don't really miss it.
And the gunpowder units are there anyway. I don't see how adding a strategical ressource would allow for more diverse units.

[Julian Delphiki]

There are already farms so which cover saltpeter production .

[CyberChrist]

Saltpeter has been more important historically than most people realize, it was not only used for Gunpowder and Explosives, but also Fertilizers - and it wasn't before 1929 that someone discovered the process of manufacturing it industrially.

Several countries had major mining operations for Saltpeter which contributed greatly to the economy of those countries. Peru had a major find in the 1840's and despite the new industrial production Chile had a mine that continued to mine it up until 1960.

These days it is easier and cheaper to produce biochemically than it is to mine them, but back before the industrial process was discovered the opposite was true.

So a Saltpeter resource would certainly be in order, but maybe it should just make Gunpowder units cheaper rather than being an absolute requirement.

[X death]

Rubber was an extremely important resource during WWII, some of japans early conquests were for rubber. As important as salt peter is, haveing a resource for it is unnesicary.

[CyberChrist]

Originally Posted by X death

Rubber was an extremely important resource during WWII, some of japans early conquests were for rubber. As important as salt peter is, haveing a resource for it is unnesicary.

Since you reocgnize their historical importance, why do you not think they qualify to be added as a resource? I mean as you yourself say then it is something civs to go to war over.

[gps]

Originally Posted by CyberChrist

Since you reocgnize their historical importance, why do you not think they qualify to be added as a resource? I mean as you yourself say then it is something civs to go to war over.

Well, it IS difficult having to go to war over a ressource you need for going to war against the nation that has the very ressource you need for properly fighting them. In Civ III rubber had to be counterbalanced by guerillias that worked without rubber. But as soon as you have to counterbalance rubber-units with non-rubber-units, you get to the point where you have to ask yourself: why do I need those resource-bound rubber-units for at all??? I think that's somewhat different to the early war strategic ressources, who's lacking could be compensated by another ressource. The one nation has horses, the other has copper or iron, so both are not effective to their max. But saltpeter or rubber were universal. Having them is great, but when you don't you're doomed.

[CyberChrist]

Originally Posted by gps

But saltpeter or rubber were universal. Having them is great, but when you don't you're doomed.

If we follow that logic then Oil and Uranium would have to go also

Anyway, that is why I said that Saltpeter (and Rubber) should allow faster production of the appropriate units rather than being absolute requirements for those units.

[gps]

Originally Posted by CyberChrist

If we follow that logic then Oil and Uranium would have to go also

Aren't oil and coal equivalent for many issues (units, railway tracks)? So it's not that unversal. Uranium, hmmm, as nuclear wars are usually not my favourite kind of war, I never really missed uranium.
And to get our connection to the real world: I think a lot more wars have been fought for oil than for saltpeter or rubber. And if I have a look at the Iran-situation I also see the connction to nuclear technologie.
But in the end, it is as it is anyway. At least until a clever modder comes and changes it...

Originally Posted by CyberChrist

Anyway, that is why I said that Saltpeter (and Rubber) should allow faster production of the appropriate units rather than being absolute requirements for those units.

I would'nt have a problem with that solution.

[CyberChrist]

Originally Posted by gps

Aren't oil and coal equivalent for many issues (units, railway tracks)?

You can't replace Oil with Coal for any Modern units that requires Oil. In fact then Ironclad is the only unit that requires Coal - and you can't use Oil instead to build that either.

I suppose you could mod units to allow both to be valid of course, but it wouldn't really make any sense.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Tecibbar

I don't know why they are taken out. It seems that with more strategical resources, would allow diverse units, more strategies, etc.

Any thoughts?

I'm sure it was just a design decision in order to balance the number of strategic resources.

[Ace of Gold]

you cant have to many resources. the more resources you add to civ the rarer it is to find the important resources(oil iron copper uranium etc)

[Rub'Rum]

Resources, land use and tile value is one of the most fun things for me in the games and it fuels everything else, so I'm all for more resources. Churchill_25 makes a good point though, at some point every tile is going to contain a resource if too many of them become crucial. I like CyberChrist's idea of making some of them give you a bonus to the production of certain units. Saltpeter could boost your gunpowder units' production a bit...

Saltpepper, hmmmm, saltpepper.

[aragami_frog]

Originally Posted by SimonL

Resources, land use and tile value is one of the most fun things for me in the games and it fuels everything else, so I'm all for more resources. Churchill_25 makes a good point though, at some point every tile is going to contain a resource if too many of them become crucial. I like CyberChrist's idea of making some of them give you a bonus to the production of certain units. Saltpeter could boost your gunpowder units' production a bit...

Saltpepper, hmmmm, saltpepper.

I don't think it should boost your gunpowder units but think of it this way, you have a ready source of ammo so I think it should cost less to create the unit and the upkeep you pay on the unit should be lower since you don't have to pay as much to keep them adaquately supplied.

Salt Pepper has been pretty signifigant. I know of a few caves around the area that have known Civil War era buildings in them cause of the mining for Salt Pepper to use in the war. At one time it was one of the most sought after resources.