How many great people do you get in a game when running SE?

As the title says, how many great people do you get in a game when running SE? I myself estimate somewhere in the 30's.

On a side note, how many turns are there in a normal game?

Nkot said:

On a side note, how many turns are there in a normal game?

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500.
.

Is it possible getting over 80?! I want proof!

I have played many, many games running SE but have never counted my GPs...

Sjaramei said:

Is it possible getting over 80?! I want proof!

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Apologies if I'm wrong, but I think the person who said 80 may have been fibbing as they are spectacularly on their own, if you look at the next highest claim its 40-50 (one person) its possible this person has over estimated as well though possibly not, because they may be playing marathon (does that affect GP rates?) in which case 80 GP in a game may be doable as well...

I think a reasonable assumption could be that, given the statistics so far, you should be able to expect to get somewhere in the region of 30-40 in a normal game.


Statistically I'd guess this is about right, if you consider a reasonable GP factory with an industriust leader should be able to manage 100 GP points per turn fairly easily.

Love to see evidence of 80 GP in a game though - and some ideas on how to do it.

I seem to remember a game by obsolete where he got 23 GPs IIRC, can't remember if it was on normal or epic, but given that he built most of the world wonders with a philosophical leader, that should be a pretty good score?

I ran some numbers through a little C++ app I whipped up:

Number of GP: 10 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 5500 Cost of last GP: 1000
Number of GP: 20 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 21000 Cost of last GP: 2000
Number of GP: 30 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 46500 Cost of last GP: 3000
Number of GP: 40 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 82000 Cost of last GP: 4000
Number of GP: 50 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 127500 Cost of last GP: 5000
Number of GP: 60 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 183000 Cost of last GP: 6000
Number of GP: 70 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 248500 Cost of last GP: 7000
Number of GP: 80 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 324000 Cost of last GP: 8000

From this we can see that getting 80 GP would require 324000 GP points at the very least. When I say at the very least, what I mean is that your empire would have had to been sychronized perfectly so that on the final turn you would have no GP points in any of your cities. Basically, this number would have to be much higher in practice because humans are not that efficient.

Further analysis concludes that, assuming that player played the most possible turns of a normal game (500), he or she would have had to, on average, get 648 GP points per turn empire wide. I think we can conclude that the claim of 80 GP is bogus because even though 648 GP points is conceivable in a large empire running the right civics, you would still have to compensate for the early game.

It is possible that this person played a marathon game, and usually such games have earlier years for the completion of wonders, etc, but I still think the advantage wouldn't be great enough.

If someone could supply how many turns are in a marathon game, I could compute the aformentioned number.

Also, most players seem to rate themselves in the 20's. As a number for examination, I am going to use 25.

Number of GP: 25 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 32500 Cost of last GP: 2500

Someone who generated 25 GP would have had to generate at least 65 GPP per turn. I think everyone can agree that this is a very logical number, considering that most players generate less than this in the early game and most players generate more than this in the late game.

Number of GP: 35 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 63000 Cost of last GP: 3500

There were also a few people who claimed a number in the 30's. 35 GP require 126 GPP a turn. I guess if you had a few GP factories you could probably get a number higher than this to compensate for the early game, but I think it is fair to see that only the best players could achive these numbers.

Number of GP: 40 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 82000 Cost of last GP: 4000

The upper bound seems to be 40. This would require 164 GPP per turn. I suppose if you you had a good number of GP factories a number higher than this would be achievable in order to compensate for the early game, but still, I would definitely like to see an example of this.

As a final summary, it can be concluded that the 20's is a very realistic range for GP, 30's could be achieved by some of the best players, and 40's+ would only be in exceptional circumstances.

*Upon examination of this evidence, I think I probably fall more in the 20's.

The 20th GP costs 3000, not 2000.

First, I confess that I was the one who posted 80, just for fun because I found it funny that choices that high were given.

I immediately thought about whether it were possible or not. Now I know that after the 10th GP (may be off on this) the increase doubles to 200 more per GP from 100 more. I don't remember whether it increases again later, but IIRC it does ... anyone know exactly what the increases are?

I think it may be possible to get 70 or 80. Marathon wouldn't help so much as playing on settler level with a huge map. The key is many, many very large GP farms. Assume Philisophical and Pacifism, and a GP that takes 20,000 GPP (just a guess, I don't know how much the 80th costs) If you could support 11 specialists, you would get 99 GPP/turn and it would take a little over 200 turns to get that GP. Perhaps 30 or so cities with 11 specialists could manage getting 80 GP. I don't consider the Parthenon because it expires, and the National Epic, because that's only 1 city, and you'll need at least a couple dozen GP farms to pull this off IMO. It really all depends on just how expensive the GPs get.

But a serious answer to the question ... about 20. Give or take a few. It depends how long the game lasts, whether PHI or not, whether you can run Pacifism or not, and of course how many GPP in general you can generate. Not all games are the same. Some SE are heavier in GP than others. And map size is a big part of it too. Surely someone playing a huge map will tend to get a few more GP than a small map.

Nkot said:

I ran some numbers through a little C++ app I whipped up:

Number of GP: 10 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 5500 Cost of last GP: 1000
Number of GP: 20 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 21000 Cost of last GP: 2000
Number of GP: 30 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 46500 Cost of last GP: 3000
Number of GP: 40 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 82000 Cost of last GP: t's impossible to not waste many GP points. Your last city would need 36000
GP points to get the last GP out. That will take 90 turns at 400 GPP/turn
(20 specialists and many wonders). The other GP farms won't produce anything useful d4000
Number of GP: 50 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 127500 Cost of last GP: 5000
Number of GP: 60 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 183000 Cost of last GP: 6000
Number of GP: 70 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 248500 Cost of last GP: 7000
Number of GP: 80 Minimum GP Points accumulated: 324000 Cost of last GP: 8000

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Your number of GP Points for 20 GP is only the number to get from 10 to 20 but should also include the 5500 points to get from 0 to 10, so the numbers are even bigger
10 5500
20 26500
30 73000
40 152000
50 279500
60 462500
70 711000
80 1035000

As you post the question, we should count Great Generals, great persons from techs and random events as well. But while you are talking for SE, I guess you would like to know, how many great persons we generate from GP points. That's could be a huge difference, so make it clear in the first post.

I can't tell you how many persons I generate, because my games finish sometimes early, sometimes late, but I will vote 20-30. That is an average game, that not finishes with early AP victory.
Probably I can generate 40, or even 50, if my goal is not to win, but to generate as many GPs, as I can. Everything above is ridicolous.

I voted 20 to 30 for a SE that I run dedicated to GP production. I have never yet reached 30 self generated although I have gotten close with 27 or 28 several times. My games all end in Domination or Diplomatic just before the elusive 30th GP pops out.

The people who voted 80 are obviously jokers and I seriously doubt anyone has ever gotten more than 40 GPs by self generation ... the costs are horrendous and it just takes too many turns even if you play the game with that as the objective and refuse to take an earlier victory. It is certainly not the case that people who play seriously will get more than 30 GPs in most games.

One thing to note is that it is possible to capture a large number of settled GPs and GGs. In some games I have captured more GPs than I have self generated (n.b counting Shrines, Academies, Scotland Yards and Military Academies as well as settled ones). This happens quite often if you go for a late game domination push and the other civs have been warring a lot. And it is especially usefull for a SE that will be running the right civics to make use of them.

I'm guessing the 20-30 range sounds right. 20 GP is certainly doable and then there are Gp's from multiple techs. 40 seems just too high for anything but a perfect game, but the mid-30's would be the ideal number. I don't see what the SE really has to do with the final numbers- one philosophical GP farm generates more GP's than other cities until something like the 15th GP (then continues to generate more) and that GP farm could be used in a CE just as easily. Reminder that these are mainly educated guesses based on other people from a CE player (I'll try to look up that GP farm graph).

edit-here

I'm playing a test game on settler, standard rain forest map. Using Ghandi because I obviously want to be Phi, and I figure Spi is the next best because it will help me build lots of cheap temples. I'm going to see just how many GP I can generate. I should be able to settle about 20 cities with 2+ food resources and enough farmed Biology grasslands to support 20 or more specialists eventually. Getting future techs should help with happy and healthy issues.

Bismarck has a particularly juicy capital that I will soon capture ... 3 bananas, 3 rice, and pigs. That will be the NE city.

I've never played below noble before, and I LMAO when I saw that I had double the power of anyone else at 500 AD with only 3 warriors and an axeman.

I generated 40 once when trying to build a super science city, the details can be seen here. If you want a closed form expression for the number of GPPs necessary to generate your nth, GPP use:

GPP(n) = C*5*floor(n/10) + C*5*floor(n/10)^2 + ceil(n/10)*C*(n%10)

Where C is the number of points required to generate the first GP (100 for Normal, 150 for Epic, 300 for Marathon). So at Normal speed the formula is:

GPP(n) = 500*floor(n/10) + 500*floor(n/10)^2 + ceil(n/10)*100*(n%10)

GPP(20):

>> n = 20; 500*floor(n/10) + 500*floor(n/10)^2 + ceil(n/10)*100*mod(n,10)

ans =

3000

So just like Dave said. The 80th would cost 36,000, and the sum total to get to 80 would be 1,038,000. I doubt that is possible without using world builder.

Darrell

I think it is possible to get 80. The 80th GP would take 200 turns with 20 specialists for a philisophical leader running pacifism. I think having 30 cities with 20 specialists each by turn 300 would be enough, and could be pulled off on settler level large rainforest map, maybe even on standard. Key is to pump out the settlers fast, pump out a vast horde of workers, and tech quickly to biology. Future tech may be necessary for health.

having that much GP would give you also a lot GAs if you burn them. as far as I know GAs give you +100% GPPs so it might speed up the further GP.

I was really pissed off when I found out that the increment between successive GP increases to 300 after you get your 20th GP (e.g. 3000, 3300, 3600, ...), as darrelljs notes. That means it would take:
30th GP: 6000 GPP (6400, 6800, ..., 9600)
40th: 10000 (10500, 11000, ..., 14500)
50th: 15000 (15600, 16200, ..., 20400)
60th: 21000 (21700, 22400, ..., 27300)
70th: 28000 (28800, 29600, ..., 35200)
80th: 36000

etc.

So, Xanadux, as for your plan to play settler and have 30 cities with 20 specialists each by turn 300 -- phil/pacifist gives 180 GPP/turn per city. With 200 turns left, that's 36000 GPP/city, or 1,080,000 GPP total -- larger than the sum total amount required to get to 80 GP (1,038,000, as darrelljs says). So you've got the required amount of cumulative GPP ... but not by a large margin, and it would be distributionally way off. I think you'd need more than 30 cities ... I'm trying a sim in Excel right now.

UPDATE/EDIT: Xanadux, after running a sim, I think your plan would leave you about 10 GP short, even with some liberal assumptions about GP generation prior to turn 300. And getting it right would require a lot of depth of vision, as well as a sizeable amount of micromanagement of GPP generation ... But give it a shot. It could be an interesting challenge: settler, large rainforest map, time victory only.

I'm working on another one now ... I decided that I was too slow to expand the first try, and also decided that Peter may be better ... PHI/EXP for +2 health and cheap granaries. But on a rainforest map fast workers are quite awesome, so Gandhi may still be the best.

I'm also concentrating a little more on developing a quick tech pace early to get to Biology and Future Techs more quickly.