Unvassalizing

redazncommieDXP · Jan 14, 2008, 02:50 AM

I've accumulated a lot of vassals through capitulation, but now I'm sick of them and it's time to annihilate them. How can I devassalize them so I can attack them?

PimpyMicPimp · Jan 14, 2008, 02:52 AM

You can't, unfortunatly. A silly mechanic in my opinion.

Refar · Jan 14, 2008, 03:58 AM

Declare war on someone else - who has boarders with your Vassal...

Woody1 · Jan 14, 2008, 07:23 AM

Sure you can.
Open up worldbuilder (ctrl+W), and choose diplomacy. Select your vassal, and remove the option that says "Vassal of xxx".

redazncommieDXP · Jan 14, 2008, 11:08 AM

I ended up using the worldbuilder trick... silly civ.

KaiserElectric · Jan 14, 2008, 11:09 AM

I think if you demand stuff from them and they refuse, it's an automatic declaration of war. Try demanding ridiculous amounts of stuff from them to get them to refuse your demands (and if they don't...free stuff!!!)

i.e. when you demand it from them, there should be an option on the trade table that says "Time for your tribute! Refusal means WAR!!!"

Way_Traveler · Jan 14, 2008, 11:14 AM

The vassals system is broken. After frustrating experiences like that, I just turned the damn thing off and kept it that way.

[I did consider using the World-Builder to just end a vassal relationship, but it seemed unfair, since my rivals couldn't do that]

IronCrown · Jan 15, 2008, 01:53 AM

I you want to win by conquest, don't take vassals. First making them your vassals and then destroying them would be cheating and an exploit.

King of Town · Jan 15, 2008, 03:59 AM

even if it says refusal means war, I've never actually gotten it i don't think. It just increases the you made an arrogant demand modifier.

Stylesrj · Jan 15, 2008, 04:19 AM

The Time for your Tribute thing only works once, the rest is "Can you spare this for a good friend?"

There should be an option to demand tribute, even if they're a friend of yours, because sometimes you want something by force

GIDS888 · Jan 15, 2008, 05:37 AM

Don't take Vassals unless you want to be stuck with them.

If an AI offers Vassalship, take it as they can end the relationship too, and will do if you get mean with them.

Monohielo · Jan 15, 2008, 09:11 AM

I don't remember if I had done this in BTS or if it was in Warlords, but I was able to release a vassal by going to the "What are the current deals we have together" screen, and canceling the vassal option listed there.

Shakauvm · Jan 15, 2008, 10:36 AM

Vassals are broken in the Civ IV AI. I tend to turn them off entirely.

Mehmed II · Jan 15, 2008, 01:14 PM

I only take vassals, when the game is almost over, because it gives a nice amount of points and then when I'm aiming for conquest victory. Otherwise, vassals are useless.

Krikkitone · Jan 15, 2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronCrown

I you want to win by conquest, don't take vassals. First making them your vassals and then destroying them would be cheating and an exploit.

Almost right... If you want to win by Conquest, make Everyone your Vassal. (or Permanent ally, or eliminate them)

tempacc · Jan 16, 2008, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electric926

I think if you demand stuff from them and they refuse, it's an automatic declaration of war. Try demanding ridiculous amounts of stuff from them to get them to refuse your demands (and if they don't...free stuff!!!)

i.e. when you demand it from them, there should be an option on the trade table that says "Time for your tribute! Refusal means WAR!!!"

The trouble is, the vassal can red-out the things s/he does not want to trade or give away, which means that they can choose not to give you something and not have you declare war on them. Completely broken.

Way_Traveler · Jan 16, 2008, 06:52 AM

Tempacc nailed it in one. You should be able to demand anything, up to and including cities (probably excluding the capital). If they don't want to give up their big production city, time for war again.

Fistleaf · Jan 16, 2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Way_Traveler

Tempacc nailed it in one. You should be able to demand anything, up to and including cities (probably excluding the capital). If they don't want to give up their big production city, time for war again.

A vassal is not a slave state so you cannot demand everything from them. Think of them as protectorates, you agree to protect them and they agree to fight at your side.

hest · Jan 17, 2008, 04:17 AM

Are the vassals still allowed to conduct massive espionage invasions on their master?

IronCrown · Jan 17, 2008, 04:50 AM

Not with Bhruic's patch.

The vassal feature is far from perfect, but if you could demand anything at any time, that would be broken. You drag your vassal into a war and he fights and dies valiantly beside you, and then some years later you just say 'me wants everything you have, precious' and if he doesn't give in, you destroy his cities? He couldn't even defend because he lost his troops in your war.

Imagine the real-world situation. No government would or could act like this... even a dictator like Hitler or Stalin needs pretexts for wars, and finding a pretext for a war against a close ally isn't quite so easy.

I think a good solution would be that you can cancel a vassal agreement after x turns and after that there is a period of additional x turns during which you cannot declare war. This should be more than 10 turns, maybe 20 or 30.

Jan 14, 2008, 02:50 AM	#1
redazncommieDXP Warlord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 176	Unvassalizing I've accumulated a lot of vassals through capitulation, but now I'm sick of them and it's time to annihilate them. How can I devassalize them so I can attack them?

Jan 14, 2008, 03:58 AM	#3
Refar Deity Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,608	Declare war on someone else - who has boarders with your Vassal... __________________ The graphics in the game doesn't necessarily show you what's going on. Its just the way they've been animated. So if you ever see any Heavy Bolter squads standing on a slope firing into the air or the ground, you may rest assured they are in fact blasting the enemy. --------------- From a Dawn of War review.

Jan 14, 2008, 11:09 AM	#6
KaiserElectric Crowbar Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Anywhere Posts: 2,076	I think if you demand stuff from them and they refuse, it's an automatic declaration of war. Try demanding ridiculous amounts of stuff from them to get them to refuse your demands (and if they don't...free stuff!!!) i.e. when you demand it from them, there should be an option on the trade table that says "Time for your tribute! Refusal means WAR!!!" __________________ Economic Left/Right: 6.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.90 Oooh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. "I'm-My-Own-Grandpa"! Let's get the hell out of here, screw history! -Prof. Farnsworth

Jan 15, 2008, 05:37 AM	#11
GIDS888 King Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England South Posts: 670	Don't take Vassals unless you want to be stuck with them. If an AI offers Vassalship, take it as they can end the relationship too, and will do if you get mean with them. __________________ CIV ON!

Jan 15, 2008, 01:14 PM	#14
Mehmed II Ottoman Empire Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 67	I only take vassals, when the game is almost over, because it gives a nice amount of points and then when I'm aiming for conquest victory. Otherwise, vassals are useless. __________________ Ei paska punniten parane. S*** doesn't get any better by weighting it.

Jan 14, 2008, 02:52 AM	#2
PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Regina, Saskatchewan Posts: 1,673	You can't, unfortunatly. A silly mechanic in my opinion.

Jan 14, 2008, 07:23 AM	#4
Woody1 Prince Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 468	Sure you can. Open up worldbuilder (ctrl+W), and choose diplomacy. Select your vassal, and remove the option that says "Vassal of xxx".

Jan 14, 2008, 11:08 AM	#5
redazncommieDXP Warlord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 176	I ended up using the worldbuilder trick... silly civ.

Jan 14, 2008, 11:14 AM	#7
Way_Traveler Warlord Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 149	The vassals system is broken. After frustrating experiences like that, I just turned the damn thing off and kept it that way. [I did consider using the World-Builder to just end a vassal relationship, but it seemed unfair, since my rivals couldn't do that]

Jan 15, 2008, 01:53 AM	#8
IronCrown Black Foe of the World Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 665	I you want to win by conquest, don't take vassals. First making them your vassals and then destroying them would be cheating and an exploit.

Jan 15, 2008, 03:59 AM	#9
King of Town Adventuring Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wilamette Valley Posts: 1,801	even if it says refusal means war, I've never actually gotten it i don't think. It just increases the you made an arrogant demand modifier.

Jan 15, 2008, 04:19 AM	#10
Stylesrj The Sins Of A Solar SEAL Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: TEC Space Posts: 3,809	The Time for your Tribute thing only works once, the rest is "Can you spare this for a good friend?" There should be an option to demand tribute, even if they're a friend of yours, because sometimes you want something by force

Jan 15, 2008, 09:11 AM	#12
Monohielo Chieftain Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	I don't remember if I had done this in BTS or if it was in Warlords, but I was able to release a vassal by going to the "What are the current deals we have together" screen, and canceling the vassal option listed there.

Jan 15, 2008, 10:36 AM	#13
Shakauvm Chieftain Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	Vassals are broken in the Civ IV AI. I tend to turn them off entirely.

Jan 16, 2008, 06:52 AM	#17
Way_Traveler Warlord Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 149	Tempacc nailed it in one. You should be able to demand anything, up to and including cities (probably excluding the capital). If they don't want to give up their big production city, time for war again.

Jan 17, 2008, 04:17 AM	#19
hest Chieftain Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 46	Are the vassals still allowed to conduct massive espionage invasions on their master? __________________ sdfsdf

Jan 17, 2008, 04:50 AM	#20
IronCrown Black Foe of the World Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 665	Not with Bhruic's patch. The vassal feature is far from perfect, but if you could demand anything at any time, that would be broken. You drag your vassal into a war and he fights and dies valiantly beside you, and then some years later you just say 'me wants everything you have, precious' and if he doesn't give in, you destroy his cities? He couldn't even defend because he lost his troops in your war. Imagine the real-world situation. No government would or could act like this... even a dictator like Hitler or Stalin needs pretexts for wars, and finding a pretext for a war against a close ally isn't quite so easy. I think a good solution would be that you can cancel a vassal agreement after x turns and after that there is a period of additional x turns during which you cannot declare war. This should be more than 10 turns, maybe 20 or 30.

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