I just lost on the 48th turn.

[thFrgttn]

A lizardman appeared to guard a lair on the third turn (just as I notice the lair existed). On the 42nd turn I sent three warriors out get rid of it, but a hill giant stomped on one and it managed to survive the attack of the other two. Then on the 46th turn, a lizard man appeared on my border. On the 47th it killed the warrior I had just placed to protected only worker. And on the 48 it attacked my city killing the scout that was protecting it.

Now should I hang my head in shame, or are lizardmen to tough for that early in the game.

[Humakty]

Were you on raging barbs ? Anyway, no shame, just don't use your scouts deffensively, they must hunt goodie huts and eventually can kill weakened ennemies. On raging barbs, I suggest you leave 2/3 warriors in your cities early game, and then rapidly form a counter army able to jump from one city to another. Ah, I NEVER recruit any scouts.

[thFrgttn]

Originally Posted by Humakty

Were you on raging barbs ?

No - but normal barbarians to appear before turn 75 anyway.

Originally Posted by Humakty

I suggest you leave 2/3 warriors in your cities early game

I had three warriors - but I want to get rid out the lair so that I didn't have to
constantly guard my workers from lizardmen. Would have had it too, second warrior attacked with almost 70% chance of winning, if that hill giant hadn't wandered past when it did, my third would have cleared it out.

Originally Posted by Humakty

Ah, I NEVER recruit any scouts.

I started with it - I'd taken all the goodies huts I could reach (I was on a long thin landmass - between to two other civs)

[[NWO]_Valis]

You made a strategical choice to go after the lair. I do not see anything wrong in that you lost. You had a chance to win and a chance to lose, simple as that.

You weren't forced to go after them but you took the risk. You knew what the price would be if you win [less lizards in the future] and what the risk would be if you failed[lizards harassing you very early]. That is called a strategical choice. The game can not be a insta-win cause it would lose its purpose. FfH is designed so the early turns are harder than vanilla.

[Marksman77]

Bad luck, it happens.
Have you even started close to Barbatos? That's even nastier

When there's a strong enemy nearby (such as lizardman) early in the game, I usually leave my warriors in city or in a well defended position (forested hill, across a river etc.) so the attacking strong barbarian unit has lower chance of success. Only when my warriors are decently promoted I go lair-hunting.
That's of course talking about lizardman or skeletons, fighting orcs and goblins is way easier.

[Halancar]

Originally Posted by thFrgttn

A lizardman appeared to guard a lair on the third turn (just as I notice the lair existed). On the 42nd turn I sent three warriors out get rid of it, but a hill giant stomped on one and it managed to survive the attack of the other two. Then on the 46th turn, a lizard man appeared on my border. On the 47th it killed the warrior I had just placed to protected only worker. And on the 48 it attacked my city killing the scout that was protecting it.

Now should I hang my head in shame, or are lizardmen to tough for that early in the game.

Lizardman get a penalty attacking cities, and they don't destroy improvements (they are hunters basically), so they are usually not that great a threat. A big annoyance yes, particularly with move 2, but not a real threat.
The way I see it, you took a risk going after it leaving only one warrior in your city, but it was one worth taking. The decision to protect the worker with your last warrior instead of retreating into the city was probably not very good, but on the whole you were mostly the victim of bad luck.

[Deon]

48th is not the record. I finished AIs earlier, rushing them. It's just a matter of a strategy and a luck.

[skallben]

You said Hill Giants smacked your warriors
I have not seen a single one since Shadow, you had a real strike of bad luck there. I agree with above poster too, you should have kept that last warrior in your city as Lizardmen just mindlessly charge things without pillaging.

[bluedevil99]

No shame... I actually think this is what makes FfH a lot of fun. There is a lot of risk in the early game. Instead of thinking "wow I've got to get to that city site before the AI", it really feels like you're forging a civilization in a mysterious and dangerous world.

[jeff_vandenberg]

Originally Posted by skallben

You said Hill Giants smacked your warriors
I have not seen a single one since Shadow, you had a real strike of bad luck there. I agree with above poster too, you should have kept that last warrior in your city as Lizardmen just mindlessly charge things without pillaging.

I see hill giants quite frequently in my post-Shadow games. They can be quite difficult to manage. I don't play with alot of barbarians in my games.

[Corm]

Originally Posted by Deon

48th is not the record. I finished AIs earlier, rushing them. It's just a matter of a strategy and a luck.

Totally although I suspect the OP just had bad luck. I use Nikkas-Knights custom scenario normally when I play FFH and generally take out at least 2 neighbours early on depending on what Civ I choose. 4 or 5 when I play Dovillo.

I tend to leave lairs near my cities until my culture engulfs them as the experience you can get your initial units from random unco-ordinated barb attacks is pretty good and not something to squander. Having said that Lizard men can be tricky because they often do take out a warrior in the early game. Generally I garrison 3 or 4 warriors in each city i found early on to counter that and random AI Civ attacks.

[skallben]

Originally Posted by jeff_vandenberg

I see hill giants quite frequently in my post-Shadow games. They can be quite difficult to manage. I don't play with alot of barbarians in my games.

That is even more bizarre because I play with Raging Barbs, Wildlife and Barb Cities!

[Aradiel]

Originally Posted by Marksman77

Bad luck, it happens.
Have you even started close to Barbatos? That's even nastier

In a direct ip game i actually had barbatos 3 squares next to my startloc.
the game was over in 3 turns

[Grillick]

Originally Posted by skallben

That is even more bizarre because I play with Raging Barbs, Wildlife and Barb Cities!

Not as bizarre as you might think. Hill Giants aren't animals, so are unaffected by wildlands, but the increased animal production will decrease their spawn rate, as barbarians spawn a certain number of units. Barbarian cities create pockets of land where animals and hill giants can't spawn or wander, and raging barbarians makes goblins and orcs start spawning earlier, which makes hill giants stop spawning earlier.

[Caradoc]

That first Lizzie spawns pretty fast, but sometimes you can destroy the Lair before the first unit appears. After that, you have a few more turns before it turns out the second unit, which is the one that comes after you.

If you can spare them, you can often take out the Lizard lair with a Worker and a Scout. Move the Worker next to the lair and the guard will attack it, leaving the lair vacant for your Scout.

[skallben]

Originally Posted by Grillick

Not as bizarre as you might think. Hill Giants aren't animals, so are unaffected by wildlands, but the increased animal production will decrease their spawn rate, as barbarians spawn a certain number of units. Barbarian cities create pockets of land where animals and hill giants can't spawn or wander, and raging barbarians makes goblins and orcs start spawning earlier, which makes hill giants stop spawning earlier.

Oooh, thanks for that explanation. Damn, I want the Hill Giants back in my games!

[Sarisin]

Originally Posted by charleswatkins

That first Lizzie spawns pretty fast, but sometimes you can destroy the Lair before the first unit appears. After that, you have a few more turns before it turns out the second unit, which is the one that comes after you.

If you can spare them, you can often take out the Lizard lair with a Worker and a Scout. Move the Worker next to the lair and the guard will attack it, leaving the lair vacant for your Scout.

Really? I've never seen that behavior before. I've paraded units in front of Orthus guarding lairs and goodie huts trying to do just as you say, get him off, weakened a bit, then kill him. But, he doesn't budge off guard duty.

Yes, I've had a few early game losses and even seen the ai civs go down very early. I usually will leave a Warrior in the area of my city in case of Skeletons, although with Barbarian Lands you can get early appearances of built barb Warriors and Goblins.

Some ai civs, like the Elves, always send out both their Scouts exploring without any defenders. If you are near them, it is easy to take them out of the game. The same happens with early barb units coming. This is especially try as the barb units spawning and being built come faster in Epic and Marathon games than you can build a defender.

I have been knocked out early when Ruins or Barrows spawn barb units in rapid succession. I can defend against 1 or maybe 2 (no promotions for me, usually), but I have had 3 come and that's spells Game Over.

[Deon]

Do you want to see an early game loss?
Look here:

Spoiler:

"Time spent 0h 2m" - those 1,5 minutes were for sitting still and looking in the monitor with a dumb face.

This is in another mod, don't be afraid =).

[skallben]

Originally Posted by Deon

Do you want to see an early game loss?
Look here:

Spoiler:

"Time spent 0h 2m" - those 1,5 minutes were for sitting still and looking in the monitor with a dumb face.

This is in another mod, don't be afraid =).

Makes me curious, what the hell caused that?

I guess Barbatos could cause similar in FFH though...

[SwordofStriker]

Originally Posted by skallben

Makes me curious, what the hell caused that?

I guess Barbatos could cause similar in FFH though...

He does. The earliest he put me out was turn 3, but I've seen him put out AI civs on turn 1.