Mass production of Great Generals & Imperialistic trait

[Johan^^]

This thread besically tells the story and strategy of my last game. Decided to play as Augustus Caesar due to his traits (Ind/Imp). My strategy was to build the great wall early and then try to annoy the nearest aggressive AI.

sounds like a bad plan right or ?

Well here is the plan.. Prebuild military in most of your early cities (had about 3-4 cities or so before 1500BC). DONT complete em, this will raise the powerslider and might set back an attack from the AI. AHH the point of it all...

Get the AI to attack you. I was attacted by Cathrine very early. First wave; 3 axes, 2 chariots.

After the declaretion of war i finished my prets and used the whip to get extra soldiers.

The core of this strategy; For each enemy soldier you kill, you get 3 xp for the soldier and 8 GG points !!!!!, this means that you only need to kill 4 enemy soldiers to get your first Great General (32 points, 30 points need for first GG). Not to mention the highly exp´ed defensive soldiers. I also got the "master of the sword event" +3 exp early, which helped even more.

Cathrine keept attacking me without any harm to my lands and in no time i had 3 GG settled in my military production city which gave me exp 11 prets of the bat with barrack and Theocracy and 1 super medic chariot.

This equals CRIII prets and all this before the enemy was even close to getting Long bows.

This strategy might be even better with Cyrus (Imp/char) for the -25% exp needed for promotions. Though the GW will be more expensive.

[DrJambo]

Certainly, if I was playing as any Imperialistic Civ, I'd beeline the GW due to the bonus to GG production being multiplied. Cyrus is indeed the obvious choice for knocking out some seriously upgraded troops. Might want to also consider Genghis Khan (Agg/Imp) or Charlemagne (Imp/Pro) as worthwhile alternatives, again assuming the GW can be obtained.

[vicawoo]

Not that it's an issue with praetorians, but the first great general can be used to get cr3 swords/axes (warlord) to grab that first capital. Maybe promote a warrior to get a free upgrade as well.

[toug]

You receive more great general points defending rather than attacking?

[Zanttu]

Originally Posted by toug

You receive more great general points defending rather than attacking?

The Great Wall works only within your cultural borders.

[madscientist]

One of the best leaders for abusing GG point I think is Ghengis Khan.

My current off-line game is with him. He is agressive and has a great UU. Smash a few opponent, settled 2 GGs in two different cities. Build early experienced units and send them off to war for additional experience and GG points. You are limited only by the economy, but if you raze several of the cities which cannot pay for themselves you are fine.

[toug]

Originally Posted by Zanttu

The Great Wall works only within your cultural borders.

Right right...

[cabert]

with genghis, you can go for keshiks pretty soon.
With a ger and 2 GG, you start with level 4 keshiks : flanking 1&2 + combat for the fist attackers, combat 3 for the rest.

Fast games...

[Divaythsarmour]

I've been playing around with this concept using Cyrus. I started a Monarch game on a balanced/small map at marathon speed. There's stone right next to the settler on turn one. I decided to save it at 4000BC and try a couple of different games with the same scenario.

I started by building a settler and researching mysticism for Stonehenge. Then masonry for Great Wall. But before GW I built 3 more settlers and spread out to the best locations. By the time the wall is finished, my third wave of cities have already popped, creating a huge territory within the wall.

I always figured that you only get the 100% emergence of GG's within the boudary of the wall, not the cultural boundaries. Maybe I'm wrong. But anyway, the wall looks more impressive when it's big.

So my two closest neighbors are Tokugawa and Pacal. I get along great with Pacal. In fact he founds Hinduism which I end up converting to. Genghis Kahn and Hannibal convert to Hinduism as well. But Tokugawa founds Buddism. So I knew it was just a matter of time.

Between the creation of the wall and the point when Toku attacks, I went on a massive wonder bender. It's so hard to resist when I have the stone. I reinforced the city closest to Japan. Toku has elephants. Luckily, I have horses and managed to finish construction and guilds before he first hits. His first wave is a stack of 4 cats, some horse archers, spearmen and 3 or 4 elephants. My city holds and I pop a great general. I switch to vassalage and theocracy. He attacks again with two stacks and I get another GG.

I finish researching engineering. My production city has finished heroic epic. I settle every GG as military instructors. I'm now building trebuchets pikemen and knights.

At one point, Tokugawa stops attacking, so I take an army up to a hill outside one of his cities and barrage it. Then I start pillaging everything. Eventually, he takes the bait and chases me all the way back to my castle.
I pop another GG and settle him in the same city. At this point I can choose 4 promotions for each knight as soon as they are built.

Before the war is over, I get another GG.

But this isn't a winning game. I haven't really focused with all the wonder building and then the long war. By 1400 I'm researching constitution while Pacal is about 5 techs ahead of me. But I can definitely see the power of the imperialistic and charismatic traits together with the GW.

[vicawoo]

Wait, imperialistic gives you more unit experience? Or maybe great wall does? 3 exp on a defensive battle, given you have better odds, is a lot.

[Johan^^]

Originally Posted by vicawoo

Wait, imperialistic gives you more unit experience? Or maybe great wall does? 3 exp on a defensive battle, given you have better odds, is a lot.

That is part of the point. By defending you get both GGs and massive exp´s for your units !

[vicawoo]

I've never heard of this. Can somebody mythbusters this on world builder?

[cabert]

you get more XPs when you attack, but the AIs don't attack with really low odds, meaning that you'll be fighting less surefire fights than your usual attack.

[Gooblah]

(note: caps are for emphasis, not to remark on "stupidity")
Guys:
Imperialistic Trait: 100% GG emergence (i.e, take gained XP, then double the quantity and stick it into the GG counter thing); This does NOT mean double XP.

Great Wall: 100% GG emergence in CULTURAL BORDERS.

The OP suggests luring an AI into attacking you, then using prebuilt units (i.e finished till one turn, then shifted on the build queue) to quickly attack, getting 200% XP converted into GG points.

[Hereditary Rule]

I've just discovered the power of creating a full fledged military city in my last game, and it made me re-evaluate the power of Imperialistic, which I previously thought was pretty crappy. Heroic epic, west point, and 6 settled GG"s in a single city is a sight to behold. Later i added a military academy, and had also used 2 other GG's to lead troops as warlords.

Unlike with Aggressive or Protective, any unit coming out of that city gets 21 EXP (with theocracy) - seige, armor, aircraft, anything! Good base production plus bonuses from buildings made any unit build in 1 turn. Needless to say, massive domination ensued.

[tycoonist]

the two leaders mentioned should never be on the defensive if you have horses or iron. they are two great UU and should not be used foolishly like this! Attacking gets some GG too. and i think your opponent(s) capital early on is worth it!

[Johan^^]

Originally Posted by tycoonist

the two leaders mentioned should never be on the defensive if you have horses or iron. they are two great UU and should not be used foolishly like this! Attacking gets some GG too. and i think your opponent(s) capital early on is worth it!

Well depending on what level you play on and how you play.... With IMP you can REX and grab a huge area of land. If you then go on attacking the AI grabbing even more land, chances are that you will never catch up to the AI techvice again due to broken economy.... though if you consolidate and grow your economy, you can affort to attack later in the game. It is at this point, it is very nice to have great generals !.

By the way, i´m not sure how the generation of unit exp works, but just tested with a save game, and in 50AD i got 3 exp to my prets while killing a axeman unit with in my border.


Later in the game i only got 1 exp for killing a unit within cathrines borders.

Can anyone clearify this ?

[Gooblah]

I think the amount of EXP generated after a battle depends on the odds. If you win after low odds, there's a good chance you'll gain more XP. If you win with high odds, you gain less XP, usually 1. The minimum XP you gain after a battle is 1, as well.

[VirusMonster]

search the forums for the "combat explained" article and look for the experience gain section... The lower the odds of the battle you are winning, the more experience you gain.

[Johan^^]

well the pret in the picture had 77% chance to win