[Map script]Creation.py for FFH2

[westamastaflash]

I seem to be unable to use the blessing of amatheon option with this map, because then I never see reagents...

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by westamastaflash

I seem to be unable to use the blessing of amatheon option with this map, because then I never see reagents...

Hopefully this weekend I can thoroughly research the problem with reagents. From what I have been hearing it suffers greatly from crowding.

[bit_cynical]

Hello Cephalo

Best maps for fantasy world by far!

Is it possible to edit script to add a few lakes?

Cheers

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by westamastaflash

I seem to be unable to use the blessing of amatheon option with this map, because then I never see reagents...

Ok, to fix this problem properly, see this thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267577

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by bit_cynical

Hello Cephalo

Best maps for fantasy world by far!

Is it possible to edit script to add a few lakes?

Cheers

I probably could add lakes but it wouldn't be a simple thing to do. Lakes tend to interefere somewhat with the river system. I may do that for the next version if I can come up with some rules that look good on the map.

[kenken244]

I think it might actually be cool to have valleys of water that are sorrounded by land. then if there was a really long path between the valleys arround it, it would make for very interesting naval battles.

[Grunthex]

Hey. I just discovered this map, and playing with it a few times, have the following thoughts.

First, it's amazing. As a scenario map generator it'd be incredible. However, I have one major and one really minor quibble.

Big: Doesn't balance at all with FFH's rules. Partly due to preferenced start locations - Malakim in the desert are screwed. Sure, you might be a bit better on desert than anyone else, but that doesn't affect building your cities. They have been bottom-feeders in every game. Also, the dwarves in the hills. Yes, they're nice. But when the valleys have so much hills, you don't have the food to expand. And last, the way terrain interfaces with Blight. Any race in Grassland is going to be totally unaffected, since Blight only hurts plains. Any race in plains is utterly crushed.

Minor: Your mountains seem to be set as Desert Mountains. Since mountains seem to be a feature, add hell terrain and they become Burning Sands mountains... and all that fire is a bit hard on most computers. Can you make them plains mountains? Or grassland even, but plains mountains turning partly desert in blight might make some neat fire shows without destroying the framerate.

I don't really have solutions to the balance concern: I'm a player, not a mapmaker. But I hope something can be done.

[Rex rgis of Ter]

^ Rather than plains or grassland mountains, I find snow maountains the best.

1) They will not terraform at anytime (Unless there are druids)

2) They are nice looking, as the white at the base of the mountain matches the snow on the snow and general whitness on the mountain.

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by Grunthex

Hey. I just discovered this map, and playing with it a few times, have the following thoughts.

First, it's amazing. As a scenario map generator it'd be incredible. However, I have one major and one really minor quibble.

Big: Doesn't balance at all with FFH's rules. Partly due to preferenced start locations - Malakim in the desert are screwed. Sure, you might be a bit better on desert than anyone else, but that doesn't affect building your cities. They have been bottom-feeders in every game. Also, the dwarves in the hills. Yes, they're nice. But when the valleys have so much hills, you don't have the food to expand. And last, the way terrain interfaces with Blight. Any race in Grassland is going to be totally unaffected, since Blight only hurts plains. Any race in plains is utterly crushed.

My thoughts on this topic are 'fiction over function'. However, if you would rather change the starting preferences for any of the civs, it's all pretty well commented in the map script so you shouldn't have any trouble figuring it out. There are also some other tuning variables if you feel there's too many plains etc.

Originally Posted by Grunthex

Minor: Your mountains seem to be set as Desert Mountains. Since mountains seem to be a feature, add hell terrain and they become Burning Sands mountains... and all that fire is a bit hard on most computers. Can you make them plains mountains? Or grassland even, but plains mountains turning partly desert in blight might make some neat fire shows without destroying the framerate.

I hadn't noticed this, those burning sands really do eat up your framerate so I'll look into it.

Thanks for the compliments!

[Bartholomew]

The Blight issue identified by Grunthex above nailed me last night BIG time. I honestly didn't know that's how Blight worked, but it is a doozy on this map. I was the Luichirp in a long dry sheltered valley, making epic war on an unholy alliance of Evil lowlanders when the AC hit 40 and BAM my entire civilization is crushed. Everything turns to desert, my populations recede to 1, and the Calabim, Svartalfar, and Balseraph pour through my weakened defenses.

.......actually, it was pretty darn cool. Real End of Days feel. Just too bad that it irrevocably ended an otherwise enjoyable game.

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew

The Blight issue identified by Grunthex above nailed me last night BIG time. I honestly didn't know that's how Blight worked, but it is a doozy on this map. I was the Luichirp in a long dry sheltered valley, making epic war on an unholy alliance of Evil lowlanders when the AC hit 40 and BAM my entire civilization is crushed. Everything turns to desert, my populations recede to 1, and the Calabim, Svartalfar, and Balseraph pour through my weakened defenses.

.......actually, it was pretty darn cool. Real End of Days feel. Just too bad that it irrevocably ended an otherwise enjoyable game.

Don't forget the 'spring' spell you guys! That'll fix you up in a jiffy.

[Bartholomew]

I might actually re-load the game to see if I can hold the gates long enough to rejuvenate my desert lands. Problem was I hadn't anticipated the complete death of my valley, and didn't have any mages on standby.

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew

I might actually re-load the game to see if I can hold the gates long enough to rejuvenate my desert lands. Problem was I hadn't anticipated the complete death of my valley, and didn't have any mages on standby.

It's kinda strange, no matter what civ I play, I always consider water mana as a must have. Turning desert into plains is too powerful to be without even without considering blight.

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by Rex rgis of Ter

^ Rather than plains or grassland mountains, I find snow maountains the best.

1) They will not terraform at anytime (Unless there are druids)

2) They are nice looking, as the white at the base of the mountain matches the snow on the snow and general whitness on the mountain.

Ok, I did some checking on this issue, and it appears that not all mountains are desert, but naturally blight can create quite a few more desert mountains than there would otherwise be.

I tried making all the peaks grassland terrain and also ice, but it looks really bad actually. I found that it's actually really important to have the peak terrain match the surrounding terrain.

[JDexter]

I've noticed in all of my games with this map script that all "replaced" peaks were desert hills, regardless of the surrounding area. Quite a few incense resources appeared that way, too.

But I'd also prefer plain hills replacing the peaks or even better matching terrain (just have it look at the adjacent plots and copy the first terrain type that's not a peak maybe?).

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by JDexter

I've noticed in all of my games with this map script that all "replaced" peaks were desert hills, regardless of the surrounding area. Quite a few incense resources appeared that way, too.

But I'd also prefer plain hills replacing the peaks or even better matching terrain (just have it look at the adjacent plots and copy the first terrain type that's not a peak maybe?).

Oh yeah, I forgot about the peaks-to-hills function. I'll have to get back to work on this.

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by JDexter

I've noticed in all of my games with this map script that all "replaced" peaks were desert hills, regardless of the surrounding area. Quite a few incense resources appeared that way, too.

But I'd also prefer plain hills replacing the peaks or even better matching terrain (just have it look at the adjacent plots and copy the first terrain type that's not a peak maybe?).

Ok, I have found that all the peak plots that are not actually in a proper valley, like the ones on the map edge, do have underlying desert. It just so happens that desert is actually a good nuetral looking terrain to place alongside anything else, so I hadn't noticed it earlier. To fix this, I will have to do some analysys of the surrounding terrain to make things look nice and also not be desert. Some mountains will become desert when blight hits but not nearly as many as there is now.

[schlalex]

i just found your map script and tried it. It looks great, however there are some points i would like to change. So i spent i lot of time in the python, but since i am new to modifying civ files, it is not so easy for me.
So i have 3 Questions:

1) what does this mean:

HillChanceAtZero = .15
HillChanceAtOne = .90
PeakChanceAtZero = .0
PeakChanceAtOne = .20

I want a little less hills. Is this the position to modify this? Are the numbers percentage? And what does altitude mean? Do you mean latitude? altitude does not make sense (e.g. when setting max alt to deserts).

2)How can i have less forests? There are far too many tiles coverd by forest, often only the adjacent to the cities are unoccupied. Did not find an option

3)How can i improve the starting locations? This is my most important question. On nearly every map one or more civs start with only one or even without any good ressource. I want everyone have at least a good 1st city.


Thanks for all the work, your script really makes fun playing a fantasy game .

[cephalo]

Originally Posted by schlalex

i just found your map script and tried it. It looks great, however there are some points i would like to change. So i spent i lot of time in the python, but since i am new to modifying civ files, it is not so easy for me.
So i have 3 Questions:

1) what does this mean:

HillChanceAtZero = .15
HillChanceAtOne = .90
PeakChanceAtZero = .0
PeakChanceAtOne = .20

I want a little less hills. Is this the position to modify this? Are the numbers percentage? And what does altitude mean? Do you mean latitude? altitude does not make sense (e.g. when setting max alt to deserts).

2)How can i have less forests? There are far too many tiles coverd by forest, often only the adjacent to the cities are unoccupied. Did not find an option

3)How can i improve the starting locations? This is my most important question. On nearly every map one or more civs start with only one or even without any good ressource. I want everyone have at least a good 1st city.


Thanks for all the work, your script really makes fun playing a fantasy game .

For example, HillChanceAtZAero is the chance that a hill will be placed when altitude is zero or the lowest possible altitude. HillChanceAtOne is the chance that that a hill will be placed at the highest possible altitude. The idea is that you get hilly-er as you go up in altitude.

I neglected to make the trees directly tunable, sorry! I always insist on using alot of trees on my maps and there are several reasons for this.

The first reason is that the most important goal for any game map is to provide a believable and immersive game setting. To that end, I think it's necessary for untamed lands to look untamed, and forests help convey that information. There are very few places on earth that get decent rainfall that are not naturally trees from one horizon to the other. Scotland being one of those few exceptions. Grassland without trees looks like a golf course in my opinion, rather more cultivated and civilized than wildlands ought to be. So, in short, the first reason I like alot of trees is because golf was invented in Scotland.

The second reason I like alot of trees is that in civ, cleared grassland is an order of magnitude more useful than plains. By putting forest in the way of most grassland, starting in plains is that much more feasable. In FFH you can get agriculture, start building farms right away and make a decent go of it even on all plains, though for economic reasons you will need to find grassland to expand into or else make your own.

[Liet-kynes]

Actually Scotland originally had a ton of trees. They were just all chopped down by the inhabitants. Go figure.