What's a Good Way to make a Comeback?

[CivMcNut]

I'm playing Rameses (Spiritual, Industrious) for the first time on a Big_Small map on Monarch, Epic Speed. I had a small continent with only Hammurabi on it. Well I took him out early with War Charriots and kept only his capital, but yet that still bankrupt me as I hadn't built many cottages (be the last time I make that make that mistake). My whole empire just was crawling around on its knees for a long time, there was no luxury resources in my borders, no money to found a new city to get any new luxury resources, no monarchy, no religion. So needless to say I had some real happiness problems with all my cities getting little done at size 5. I thought I was a dead duck.

Things started turning around, I got gold and then silver for resources, I discovered Monarchy and got that going, got CoL and got courthouses going, and the cottages I threw down are starting to mature. Now I'm researching techs every 5 turns on average, this being Epic speed, I figure I'm doing pretty good. I have met the AIs however and they got WAY ahead of me in tech, even the low AI guy has about 8 techs on me and I have none that I can offer him. I did discover compass and manage to trade that for a couple of techs. Are there any middle age techs the AI likes to put off researching for a while? I'm used to being right in the middle of the pack for tech trading, being at the bottom I just want to find something they want and trade for a tech they have.

I'm about to settle my last city now, my slider is 60% and I'm in the green. I've got some pop 17 cities, I figure if I don't get in any real wars I might have a shot at this. Is there a way I can sneak back and steal a win at the Monarch level once getting so far behind in tech? If so what needs to be done?

Sorry for no savegame file, I'm at work

[Hammurbabble]

I can't think of a way to turn that around, honestly. Your mistake was to wipe out your neighbor on your continent so early. It's very hard to win with only one neighbor, but it's impossible to win with none. If you're in a situation like that, play nice with the neighbor, expand peacefully, and go to war with him only if he's getting bigger than you, and only to whittle him down a little. Trade tech with him every chance you get -- he's your only trading partner and you know the other half of the world will be trading like crazy.

As soon as you can afford it, beeline to Optics, get those caravels out and make contact with the rest of the players, and only then do you go to war with your neighbor and take him down.

[silverbullet]

What is the tech situation? Is Liberalism race over?
Who are your rivals? What's the diplomacy between them?

[endymion]

@Hammurbabble

i whole hartly do not agree. the lonely heart series proves that u can pefercly well win in isolation the secret is cottages and beelining astronemi once u get better citys and ur cottages mature u can outresearch the ai. im personally a monarch player(just moved up from prince) on prince i was able to beat isolation even outpace the ai big time on one start we had. i didnt try it on monarch but there were others who did and easily won people managed to win on emperor even

[Winston Hughes]

By the sounds of things you're now teching fast, and have plenty of time to catch up.

Assuming you don't have a coastal route to the AIs, look to pick up Astronomy asap to get those juicy intercontintal trade routes. Other than that, take a deep beeline along a path that the AI doesn't seem to be so far down, and follow it relentlessly until some decent trading opportunities open up.

If you're not already familiar with the GP lightbulb preference lists, then take a look at them*, and consider how you might be able to speed up your beeline with a judicious lightbulb or two.

Once you get a tradeable tech, choose your trades carefully. Keep an eye out for tech-brokering opportunities, and make sure to take full advantage.

If you're still lagging as you move into the later stages of the game, try a beeline to the Internet - the ultimate comeback wonder.

*http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952

[CivMcNut]

I've been at isolation until Astronomy before and won a space race. So I know it can be done, only this time I fumbled and really got chewed up making some bad tech decisions in the classical age and not having enough cottages laid down.

I just finished researching machinery as far as current techs go. The AIs all have paper and philosophy so I doubt beeling to Liberalism would be a good idea.

Astronomy is not too big a factor for me right now as I can trade to all the AIs but one through coastal tiles. It just took so long to find where the AIs WERE, without Calendar there was no guessing whether I was N,E,S, or W of most of them. The one AI that doesn't have trade routes available with me, Lincoln also declared war on me, but so far it has just been a phony war. Justianian is wiping out Montezuma and the Chinese don't like Montezuma either. Both Justianian and the Chinese like me cause I converted to their religion, but upset I won't cancel my numerous deals with the Aztecs. Charlemagne has probably the most cities closest to me and I think he's at cautious.

Maybe next time I'll have to see what happens when I leave the other civ, perhaps replay it from the start.

It's a pretty dicey game, I want to play it out to see if I can at least survive to the end.

[Winston Hughes]

Okay, so forget Optics and Astronomy - they won't help you here (but whatever happens don't let anyone block that route!).

Maybe try a 'low-road' beeline towards Steel. Alternatively, aim for Democracy to get those cottages growing.

[CivMcNut]

I thought of another thing that puts my situation in perspective, most of the AIs are researching Banking right about now. My highest tech is Civil Service. I thought if I can go for paper next and then research Printing Press and Education pretty early, I might be able to start teching a lot faster. This would leave me without Guilds (knights), but I figure Macemen, Crossbowmen, and Longbowmen should keep me safe until grendaiders, cavalry, or riflemen start showing up. I sure don't plan on invading anybody. Keep my focus on getting smarter and hopefully it will happen.

I suppose if I build up a whole bunch of defensive troops, that lowers the possibility of being invaded right? I'm just used to being on the offensive.

@Winston
I like that idea of the Internet, that will probably be what can win this game if I last that long.

Perhaps tonight I'll try and see if I can't post the begining game save and the save where I left off last night.

[r_rolo1]

Given your description of the tech table, I would go to Education ASAP and backfill with trades.... Education gives universities, acess to a lot of good techs ( like PP ,lib and Gunpowder ) and it is a nice trade chip to backfill ( after winning /losing the lib race , of course )

One other advice i would give to you is to start thinking in how to cope a intercontinental invasion..... My personal experience is that atleast one Ai will try to invande you in you are in isolation and if you didn't worked to pump power rating up

[InvisibleStalke]

The other option to consider is spying. If the AI settle a city on your continent, switch to maxing the EE slider and stealing their techs. If you settle spies it is cheaper than research and there are a lot of buildings that give bonuses to EP in the renaissance era.

[CivMcNut]

Originally Posted by r_rolo1

Given your description of the tech table, I would go to Education ASAP and backfill with trades.... Education gives universities, acess to a lot of good techs ( like PP ,lib and Gunpowder ) and it is a nice trade chip to backfill ( after winning /losing the lib race , of course )

One other advice i would give to you is to start thinking in how to cope a intercontinental invasion..... My personal experience is that atleast one Ai will try to invande you in you are in isolation and if you didn't worked to pump power rating up

Ok so education it is. Most of my cities now have forges and pretty good production with Organized Religion, so I think I can get some universities up pretty quick too. If I see nobody has education, I'll take a stab at Liberalism, but I'm almost sure someone will.

[CivMcNut]

Originally Posted by InvisibleStalke

The other option to consider is spying. If the AI settle a city on your continent, switch to maxing the EE slider and stealing their techs. If you settle spies it is cheaper than research and there are a lot of buildings that give bonuses to EP in the renaissance era.

Interesting you should say that cause I popped a great spy that I used on a mission for the Aztecs (I just gotta know want Monty is up to, especially when he is my closest neighbor). I got like 5,000 pts with them hopefully I'll use a spy as soon as I go back and GULP, research alphabet. Haven't had a need yet, as they all had it, and I had bigger fish to fry. I had better hurry too as the Byzantanties are wiping him out.

[aelf]

I would say aim for Democracy (Emancipation) and Liberalism (Free Speech) and cottage spam your entire continent. You'd be surprised how quickly your GNP can climb and you would surpass your opponents in good time.

For example:

[CivMcNut]

I got home where I could upload the files. I saved a copy of the start and the point where I'm at when I decided to write the post. You'll see I only have one cow in my starting spot for Thebes. Maybe next, I'll learn how to do some screenshots

[vicawoo]

If you have a lot more land, you should be fine. Once you match up on one part of the tech tree, you'll catch up everywhere. And getting some infighting might help.

[CivMcNut]

Ok, I got this one really turned around thanks to some good advice. I teched paper and education. Traded education to Van Orange (a new vassal of Lincoln's) for like 4 techs his world map and some gold. I shopped around and did lots of tech and resource trading and what not and I was able to claw back up to third in score without any further conquests. Alas, China beat me to Liberalism.

I posted the save of the game in 1910. Justian has just built the Apollo program and Lincoln has Mass Media and won't trade it, so he's probably building the UN. I just started the Internet in my top production city. I still think there's a chance to win this one.

[CivMcNut]

Thanks to everyone with some sound advice.

I wound up pulling off that game with a win. Justanian was far more powerful, and Lincoln had far more sway diplomatically, but I had the science thanks to the Internet project. That granted me like 7 technologies the turn I built it and got me satellites later. I led in tech the rest of the way and never looked back. Nobody declared war on me in the final turns so I was able just to slap together the spaceship having all my cities cranking away at it.

It got ugly towards the end with several nuclear wars and global warming causing cities to starve.

I don't think I'd have been able to win that game if it weren't for the forums.