Advice on playing Hammurabi?

[eewallace]

I've started a game on noble/small/continents and randomly drew Hammurabi, who I've never played before. I usually play builder/defensive games, but this one has some real potential for warmongering. I'm at a bottleneck in the upper middle of a continent, with Willem due north and Victoria NE of him. I have 3 cities (early classical age) with horses and iron, and have managed to cut off Willem and Victoria from the lower half of the continent that is empty except for some barbs, and have kept borders closed. Willem has been goofing around building the great wall--not sure what Victoria is up to... I've finished scouting my territory, and am building axemen/swordsmen/bowmen. Here's the question: Do I attack Willem now, or do I peacefully expand into the lower continent and wait for Willem and Victoria to get desperate (I think they each only have room for 3-4 cities)?

[madscientist]

That is an interesting situation (without seeign a map). You have an agressive AI with a UU that can be used agressively (bowmen are great) and you have 2 real techers who are cut off from some good land.

The danger as that they both can outtech you if they sit arround with a few cities. So my feeling is to make some chariots and agressive swords and crack heads. Taking mature cities are alot easier then settling new ones. I would prepare and wait until Will finished the GW, then take that city as a priority. The GW will protect you back from the AIs and allow you to finish Will and then hit Victoria. The ORG trait will help you absorb the cities, make sure you tech CoL sooner than later and whip courthouses.

So I say, leverage your agressive trait sooner than later.

[DigitalBoy]

What I would do is settle some cities in the lower half of the continent and then go to war with Willem or Victoria. I wouldn't try to settle the lower half completely, but settling some cities there would give them time to mature and grow while your older cities continue the war effort.

[eewallace]

Thanks. I've scoped things out a bit with a spy, and I think I will move aggressively to take out Willem.

He has the great wall in one city and the hindu religious capital in another. The great wall should prove useful to keep the barbarians from swamping me from the south.

This may be my first easy conquest victory on noble (depending on who is on the other continent).

[madscientist]

Hammarabi has the old vanilla Toku traits, ORG/AGG. One of the better for conquest. If Will has the Hindu Holy City all the more reason to hit him early.

[Xurr]

What are the relations between Willem and Victoria? Make sure they aren't buddies or you could find yourself in a war with both. If they are buddy buddy, then expand quickly south. If you can get a good lead on number of cities then later you can take on both.

Also I really hate Hamm as an AI. He is one of the chattiest ADD leaders in the game. The guy seriously won't shut up, so when I see him in my games I try and take him out asap.

[eewallace]

Willem has spread his religion to Victoria as well, so I'm assuming that she will get upset when I attack him. Victoria doesn't seem to have horses, though, and I'm thinking I may be able to take them both out with a pre-macemen army. I haven't run across Victoria too often, so I'm not sure what her preferred tech path is--I'm hoping she's not too focused on getting good defenders...

[madscientist]

Victoria is between Liz and Churchhill as far as military, excelling later in the game. If she get's a false sense of secuity you can nail her pretty easily. Generally Will is the better arrior but neither matches up early against Hammarabi. I still say you ram your code of laws down their throats, it doesn't ge better than this opportunity.

[CivMcNut]

Hammurabi has been my favorite new leader I've played in BTS so far. I really liked Toku's traits in Vanilla, and that's what Ham's got now. That aggressive means all your troops are that much tougher, coming right out of the box, and you'll wind up winning a lot of fights that you wouldn't otherwise have got. Those bowmen are tough defenders, their only weakness early on would be chariots. That oraginized trait comes in really handy when you've captured a lot of cities early on and you need cheap courthouses and a discount on your civics bill to keep you humming right along.

As for what to do, press onward and outward and try to sieze as much territory as you can without causing a diplomatic mess. From the sounds of it you're wiping out Wilhem and are thinking of taking out Victoria next. Sounds like a plan.

[eewallace]

Thanks, all. I took out Willem without much trouble, but then stopped to consolidate and build up my economy (and go to work--darn, I hate having to make a living) before moving on to Victoria, which might have been a mistake. She's cornered, though (and mad as a hornet). But I've got a great general to play with, so I think I'll just go take her on with him leading the troops. (Settling him is also an option, but that will delay my assault on Victoria while I produce more troops.) After that, head for astronomy and the seas to see who is in the other hemisphere.

[madscientist]

Work is a damned inconvenience to CIV!

[futurehermit]

Basically, Hammurabi's traits suggest militaristic horizontal expansion. His UU helps you hold onto conquered territory and provide solid stack defense. His UB is kinda meh, but helps when you want to start expanding vertically mid-game.

[dankok8]

Bowmen are solid stack and city defenders against ax rushes in particular, but they aren't much offensively at all; one of the weakest single player UU's imo. The traits are good for warmongering though so all the more reason to try Hammurabi out even though he does not have much going for him.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by dankok8

Bowmen are solid stack and city defenders against ax rushes in particular, but they aren't much offensively at all; one of the weakest single player UU's imo. The traits are good for warmongering though so all the more reason to try Hammurabi out even though he does not have much going for him.

Those bowmen fit very nicely into an attacking stack or watching your home borders during a war. Agressive axes/swords with Bowmen and a spear is pretty unstoppable, especially once you capture the city. Very hard for an AI to retake it with Axes if Bowmen are there.

Not the best UU, but not really the worse.

[eewallace]

The bowmen basically didn't do much when attacking--the axes and swords took out the city defenders, then I left bowmen protecting cities and marched on. The only real difficulty I've really seen with hammurabi so far is that, given my military focus, both in science and production, I'm not getting enough culture to pop borders quickly. Maybe chopping monuments or libraries early on???

[InFlux5]

You have an agressive AI with a UU that can be used agressively (bowmen are great)

Meh, Bowmen aren't much better than a regular Archer, and neither are very good for city raiding. The Bowman's 50% to melee will rarely matter, as the AI stockpiles Archers; and even when it does come into play, you are only getting a (base) 4.5 strength unit, which is still weaker than an Axeman's 5, which is the most likely unit you'll be trying to beat. The only unit the Bowman really excels against is the Spearman, which can already be eaten alive by Axemen.

When I play Hammurabi I ignore the UU, play the traits (which have great synergy), and take advantage of the UB in mid-/late-game.

[madscientist]

Hammarabi's limit is culture which can be solved one of several ways

1) whip a monument first
2) Run culture slider if you have drama
3) Run at least one artist specialist if in caste sytem (I like this the best)
4) Religious Missionary.
5) If the city has a religion already, adopt no state religion. You'll get the culture then from it.

Let us know when/if you kill the British Queen!

[eewallace]

Wrap-up report:

Well, I got my conquest victory, but it wasn't nearly as easy as I had envisioned. It turned out Victoria actually had 7 cities--there was a penninsula I hadn't scoped out) and had horses AND elephants. I made a bad mistake with my great general leading the troops against her--I planned on turning him into a super-medic chariot, but left the chariot in the large stack of attackers when I joined him, so his points got distributed to a whole bunch of other troops and I ended up with a general attached to a virtually useless chariot... Anyway, Victoria was pretty tough, although I had macemen and knights before she did. I also made good use of a great spy (having conquered the great wall earlier) to infiltrate one of her cities, after which my spies stole some of her techs. I also used spies to take down her city defenses a few times (London was at almost 150%!).

Anyway, it was the 1500s by the time I finished Victoria off. I left the raging barbs occupying the bottom half of my continent (that great wall is useful on the raging barb setting) and set off for the other contintent, where I found Isabella finishing off Gilgamesh. Amazingly enough, she was even more backwards tech-wise that I was. And of course, being Isabella, she hated me the moment she set eyes upon me... Anyway, I got grenadiers, rifles and galleons, and took her out fairly quickly... It probably would have been a domination rather than conquest victory, but I razed all of her cities just on general principles. (Izzy and I don't get along!)

Analysis: Hammurabi has some strengths, but in general isn't the type of leader I really like. Low culture, hard to keep the economy going, lots of happiness problems... I'm sure true warmongers could have done much better with him than I did.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by eewallace

Wrap-up report:

Well, I got my conquest victory, but it wasn't nearly as easy as I had envisioned. It turned out Victoria actually had 7 cities--there was a penninsula I hadn't scoped out) and had horses AND elephants. I made a bad mistake with my great general leading the troops against her--I planned on turning him into a super-medic chariot, but left the chariot in the large stack of attackers when I joined him, so his points got distributed to a whole bunch of other troops and I ended up with a general attached to a virtually useless chariot... Anyway, Victoria was pretty tough, although I had macemen and knights before she did. I also made good use of a great spy (having conquered the great wall earlier) to infiltrate one of her cities, after which my spies stole some of her techs. I also used spies to take down her city defenses a few times (London was at almost 150%!).

Anyway, it was the 1500s by the time I finished Victoria off. I left the raging barbs occupying the bottom half of my continent (that great wall is useful on the raging barb setting) and set off for the other contintent, where I found Isabella finishing off Gilgamesh. Amazingly enough, she was even more backwards tech-wise that I was. And of course, being Isabella, she hated me the moment she set eyes upon me... Anyway, I got grenadiers, rifles and galleons, and took her out fairly quickly... It probably would have been a domination rather than conquest victory, but I razed all of her cities just on general principles. (Izzy and I don't get along!)

Analysis: Hammurabi has some strengths, but in general isn't the type of leader I really like. Low culture, hard to keep the economy going, lots of happiness problems... I'm sure true warmongers could have done much better with him than I did.

Congrats!! A win is a win in my book. Whether it's a classic masterfully played game or a dragout bloodfest. Dead is dead!