Apostalic Palace - Grrrrr

[Prince David]

I'm playing my first game on some level that doesn't allow me to just roll all over anyone, and the current bane of my existence is the Apostolic Palace. In recent history I have been forced into a war against a faction I was grooming as a close ally and received a substantial happiness hit ("the rest of the world thinks we're evil"!!) when I voted "refuse to comply" to a trade embargo against same.

So how do I get off of the Apostolic wagon? I don't technically mind if the rest of the world wants to dog pile someone, but I really, really mind being forced to declare war. (Totally goobered my relations and delayed my own war plans by a ton of turns - the underdog refused to take my call for a long time and I couldn't make peace.)

[Krikkitone]

1. Give the owner of the Apostolic Palace (not the leader but the Owner of the city it is in) Mass Media

2. Raze that city

3. You can keep defying and hope the religion isn't in any of your important cities (the unhappiness only impacts cities with the AP religion)... also it fades after a Long while

[oranges]

You can either vote No and hope it would have the majority or vote Never and suffer the unhappiness. The only other way out is not to have the AP religion in any of your cities in the first place, so you want be asked to vote at all.

[Kao'chai]

Beacause of this , everyone hated me beacuse the AP wanted to stop trading with me and later on everyone declared war on me .grrrrrrrrrrrrrr........So , the lesson is : If you can't beat them , join them

[Mercenary82]

does razing the city the Apostic palace is in actually stop new votes from taking place? It never worked when doing that to the city with the U.N. unless thats been changed.

[theKurgen]

once your civ has been infected with the AP religion there's not much you can do short of razing the city. One thing you can do is spread the religion to all your cities or capture more AP-religion cities in order to control more votes. Generally if the AP gets founded and I'm not infected by it i'll be changing straight into theocracy to make it sure it never happens.

[Walliard]

Originally Posted by theKurgen

Generally if the AP gets founded and I'm not infected by it i'll be changing straight into theocracy to make it sure it never happens.

While that does prevent diplomatic victories, it can backfire if they decide to declare war on you. Keep in mind that if you only have the AP religion in one city, then the happiness penalty for defiance only applies to that one city.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the happiness penalty only occurs if the vote would otherwise have passed had you simply voted No.

[dubrown]

Originally Posted by Walliard

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the happiness penalty only occurs if the vote would otherwise have passed had you simply voted No.

You only get unhappiness if you defy a resolution that succeeds. If it fails, you will not get any unhappiness.

[dubrown]

Ah, forgot, to the question at hand. You can handle the AP in a few ways. If you don't get it and you're of a different religion than the AP religion. If you're in a strong position otherwise, you don't have to worry much about it, you can get some relationshits, some unprovoked wars/tradeembargos but you are strong enough to handle it so the AP is just a bit nuisance. On the other hand if you're "weak" or can't handle the whole world against you scenario, go with the AP religion, get it to all you cities and try to get friendly with the AP president. The other way as suggested before, stay out of that religion, in most cases this works pretty well. The AI ain't too bright with how it uses the AP resolutions.

And with that, the only time I tend to prioritize the AP is when I'm aiming for diplowins and/or when diplomacy is a vital part of my strategy and I can't afford any misplaced negative diplopoints. If you play the warmonger, it's more often than not a minor issue (atleast to me)

[Mesousa]

Just spread the AP's religion to one of your ally's cities, and there won't be resolutions like that against him anymore.

[GatlingGun]

If you start a custom-game and disable diplomatic victories, it should prevent this AP insanity...

[Prince David]

Originally Posted by dubrown

You only get unhappiness if you defy a resolution that succeeds. If it fails, you will not get any unhappiness.

I can state this that this statement is untrue. The blockade vote failed, but I'm still staking the hit for being evil . . .

Originally Posted by Mesousa

Just spread the AP's religion to one of your ally's cities, and there won't be resolutions like that against him anymore.

Now that is a clever idea - and a doable one!

[dubrown]

Originally Posted by Prince David

I can state this that this statement is untrue. The blockade vote failed, but I'm still staking the hit for being evil . . .

Hmm, I thought I didn't experience any unhappiness amongst my pop if the vote failed despite I defied the resolution. But if you are refering to relationship hits with the other leaders you do get that if you defy a resolution either way the result turns out.

Well, I might be mixing things up as it was a while since I studied the AP effects in detail. I better get home and do testruns before I state anything in the future.

[Killroyan]

Defying is the only way possible I guess. In one of my games I was conquering Augustus. Took his first city, marched on to his capital (with the AP) when the voting came in to stop the war with me :s I thought I had enough points to get the nay vote as I really wanted Augustus capital. I was already bombing away his defense. Then all the guys votes yes on stopping the war. Poof, all my armies back in the homeland. 10 turns later they vote that I have to give back the city I conquered. Grmbllllll. Should have defied them right there and then but I was afraid I would be facing 4 religious nuts then (including Genghis and Alex). AP can be a blessing but can also mess things up seriously.

[home_office]

Here are probably some stupid questions. When I build AP how do I get elected leader? And when I am elected leader how do I access the resolutions I can use? I am a warmonger if I had a bad day at work, or otherwise a culture-monger, but I want to try for a diplomatic victory in BTS.

[glevlana]

I recently was playing a game where the AP was established on a separate continent whilst I was gaining control of my own smaller continent. I had no contact with the other continent and so did not have the religion in my own civ. The AP owner had vassaled another civ and had a sizeable lead in land and population (close to victory requirements), but I had a superior tech and therefore military lead. I targeted a fat coastal city (which of course had the AP religion) of the AP owner and gained it in one turn with a masterful sea invasion.

Two turns later, the result of the AP vote--which I did not get to vote in--gave the AP owner a diplomatic victory.

[Symbol]

Originally Posted by home_office

Here are probably some stupid questions. When I build AP how do I get elected leader? And when I am elected leader how do I access the resolutions I can use?

If you build it then you are automatically one of the two candidates up for election. You will then be asked to nominate a resolution every few turns from a list that varies according to varying circumstances.

[eris]

Originally Posted by glevlana

I recently was playing a game where the AP was established on a separate continent whilst I was gaining control of my own smaller continent. I had no contact with the other continent and so did not have the religion in my own civ. The AP owner had vassaled another civ and had a sizeable lead in land and population (close to victory requirements), but I had a superior tech and therefore military lead. I targeted a fat coastal city (which of course had the AP religion) of the AP owner and gained it in one turn with a masterful sea invasion.

Two turns later, the result of the AP vote--which I did not get to vote in--gave the AP owner a diplomatic victory.

As I understand it, the main requirement for an AP diplomatic victory is that all civs be members and have a vote. Therefore you must have had a vote opportunity, even if you only had 1 vote. If I follow your narrative, you did not have the AP religion on your continent and therefore, not in your civ. However, when you took that fat coastal city, that put the AP religion into your civ. This leads me to the thought that if you had razed the fat coastal city, you would have kept the AP religion out of your civ and deprived the AP owner of a diplomatic victory.

[catfish99]

Any idea how long the "stop trading" resolution lasts? The AI decided to throw an embargo on Hammy, who I was using as a tech trading partner. Sulieman was an earlier embargoed CIv, and he has recovered, but I didn't track how long he had nothing to talk about.

[sagji]

Originally Posted by eris

As I understand it, the main requirement for an AP diplomatic victory is that all civs be members and have a vote. Therefore you must have had a vote opportunity, even if you only had 1 vote. If I follow your narrative, you did not have the AP religion on your continent and therefore, not in your civ. However, when you took that fat coastal city, that put the AP religion into your civ. This leads me to the thought that if you had razed the fat coastal city, you would have kept the AP religion out of your civ and deprived the AP owner of a diplomatic victory.

My guess it that you had the religion in the city - thus satisfying the member requirement, but that it being in revolt ment you got no votes for its population.