PC crashes - possible CPU malfunction?

[Hurricane]

First, my system specs:

Win2000 SP2, AMD Athlon 1400 MHz, 512 MB DDR RAM, ASUS A7V Mobo, ASUS V7100 AGP GeForce2 MX 32 MB Graphics card and an IBM 40 GB HDD. All of these are about 1 year old, except the HDD which is about 2.5 years old. Award Medallion BIOS v6.0 rev 1007 (flashed in March).

Then on to my problem: I´ve been experiencing quite a few crashes to the blue screen of death during the last months. At first I thought it was my system that had become unstable (then a Win98 system installed on my HDD 2.5 years ago with LOTS of programs), so I formatted the HDD and installed Win2000 on the clean HDD. This was not without problem, however, and only after several crashes during the install process I finally managed to get it up and running.

Then I only had one or two crashes a month during the spring, which I considered acceptable, but now they appeared again. It seems maximum processor usage triggers the crash. I have installed a small program that shows processor usage, and it has always been at 100% when the crashes occur. Yesterday and today I managed to trigger a crash by opening Photoshop and click and drag around on a picture with the crop tool. According to the CPUusage program, the processor stays at 100% during this time. I also experienced crashes mainly in games, in Civ3 for example after I captured an enemy city.

The error codes vary from crash to crash, and many of the times the computer will immediately reboot so I can´t take a note of the error message. This was the error message from the last crash:

***STOP: 0X000000A (0X57FBDC24, 0X00000002, 0X00000000, 0X80062EDE)
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
***Address 80062EDE base at 80062000, DateStamp 3a24873f - hal.dll

The Windows support pages don´t offer any answers to this specific error code which might have any relevance to my problem.

My system is stable when I surf the net, use Excel, the File Manager and other programs that are easy on the processor.

So my assumption is that something is wrong with the processor. I have run different diagnostic tests on it, but they have found nothing. The cooling fan is working like it should.

Any ideas on how to test my processor, or any other issue you find suspicious? I wouldn´t like to turn in my computer for service, as the cheapo store I bought it from is known for 2-3 month delays in their maintenance.

[IceBlaZe]

Burn your Processor and get a new one from the Guarantee.
Just kiddin

Of course it's not such a bad idea...

[BlueMonday]

I think the more likely possibility is some background program is sucking up your CPU cycles and memory, causing it all to crash. 2K and XP have dozens of microsoft programs running in the background that suck up resources.

Figuring out which one, however, is another matter. I've been hearing soem talk lately about a propram that is everpresent in 2K and XP OSs called "citdeamon" which is some kind of MS indexer. When it starts running it'll expand you virtual memory into Gigabyte measurements.

Forgive me, for I do not know much abotu 2K and XP, but I think you should look through the running programs and shut off the ones you don't need. Back in 9x you coudl just run "msconfig" and take 'em out of your bootup, but I don't know how to do that in 2K or XP. Also, look into limiting your virtual memory. If your OS starts using too much of it, it can really slow everything down.

P.S. Of course, AMD processors do run much hotter than Intel models, and as such have been known to have much shorter lives than Intel brands. It certainly is possible that the processor is failing, but I think ruling out a software problem should be your first step.

[starlifter]

This is very likely a simple hardware fix. Before I tell you, can you have a look at the CPU temperature and/or case temperature?

Where is your box physically located, and what is the *room* temperature where your machine is running?

Who installed the heat sing on your CPU? Do you know the exact model of it?

What is the method of interface betweent the CPU & heat sink...
1. Teflon.
2. Thermal grease.
3. Nothing.

Do not dissassemble anything (yet) if you don't know the answers.

What sort of fan/heat sink do you have on your video card? What is the interface (option 4 might be Manufacturer bonding).


Print any other error messages, no matter how arcane you thing they are. After I see a few more, we'll know more. This particular error realates to you Hardware Abstraction Layer, which is NT's way of communicating to your hardware.



It is highly highly unlikely that there is an actual problem with your CPU. It is most likely a heating problem, and less likely, a RAM issue.

BTW, what is the nVidia Detnonator revision you are using?

[starlifter]

P.S. Of course, AMD processors do run much hotter than Intel models, and as such have been known to have much shorter lives than Intel brands. It certainly is possible that the processor is failing, but I think ruling out a software problem should be your first step.

Of hundreds of CPUs, the only ones I've ever seen fail have been Cyrix and Intel. I run CPUs on the edge, eg. overclocked and much hotter than "averag" users. I've never been able to fail an AMD CPU. AMD states 60 degrees C is their engineering op limit... if you chop your measured temp by 55 or so (I run at 51 to 54 in the summer months in Seattle), things could be fine. But believe it or not, evey CPU is an "individual", and do not behave identically.

This is almost certainly a temp issue, and likely a bad fan or heat sink, or plain lack of case cooling. I run up to 7 fans in my case, depending on what I have turned on.... and I have SCSI drives that actually run too hot to touch (yes, the mfgr (Fujitsu) says that is "normal").... just gotta get the heat out and all will likely be fine.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by starlifter
Where is your box physically located, and what is the *room* temperature where your machine is running?

Who installed the heat sing on your CPU? Do you know the exact model of it?

What is the method of interface betweent the CPU & heat sink...
1. Teflon.
2. Thermal grease.
3. Nothing.

This is probably the problem. The heat sink is an "Alpha PEP66" heat sink. I installed it myself, and added no thermal grease Big mistake, I guess.

The CPU is running at 68-69 degrees Celsius.

Originally posted by starlifter
What sort of fan/heat sink do you have on your video card? What is the interface (option 4 might be Manufacturer bonding).

It´s a fan, manufacturer bonding.

Originally posted by starlifter
BTW, what is the nVidia Detnonator revision you are using?

No idea. Where do I check that?

[Hurricane]

Small correction. My video card has only a heat sink as cooling, so no fan there.

I just checked that all fans really are working (i.e. the fan on the motherboard, the fan on the cpu heat sink and the power supply fan). The power supply fan is pretty old 230W (I use the ATX case from my old computer), maybe I should get a new, more effective, one?

[starlifter]

The CPU is running at 68-69 degrees Celsius.

Do not run your machine until you can get the temperature below 55. You chip amy already be ruined, or if you're lucky, it will just be malfunctioning at a that excessive temperature.

The fan and heat sink itself are quite important. many heat sinks are simply not very effective. There can easily be a 20 celsius difference in two heat sink/fan combos.

If you use thermal grease, you must apply it properly. just using it can, in some cases (but I doubt in yours, based on the temp you report) make it worse. Just use a very thin layer. If it squishes out when you apply the sink, you used too much. There must be metal to metal contact, not metal thermal metal. Thermal only helps by fillin in air gaps. It is not meant to be an oero filling.

In general, the bigger and more massive the thermal reservoir, the better the heat sink. I like the ones that are gold, and look like a twisting toronado. They are huge, They are quite. They drop the temp by 10 to 18 degrees over most other sinks I've used, and I've used dozens of types. Do not spare expense. Spend $20.

No idea. Where do I check that?

Settings --> Control panel --> Display.

You likely need the new drivers, esp if you use OpenGL or DirectX. you can visit you Cideo Mfgr's site & use theirs, or use the nVidia refernce dirvers at www.nvidia.com. I have a Diamond card, and quit using their drivers after 2 days. I use the nVidia ref. BTW, all mfgrs dirvers ARE based on nVidia ref, but are generally quite a few revisions behind.

The power supply is a common cause of intermittant computer problems. Try fixing your CPU temp first, however.

[Hurricane]

Ok, thanks for the tips. I´ll head for the computer store after work. Luckily today was payday.

I´ll get back when I have installed the new stuff.

[Hurricane]

Ok, I bought a new cooler and fan for the CPU. The temp is now at 50-55 C (as opposed to 70 C with the old cooler). No crashes!

[starlifter]

Amazing, eh? The chip cooler is so often overlooked....

People assume (quite erroneously) that solid state hardware is always "right", and crashes are caused only by bad software and drivers.

What cooler did you buy? It might be a good recommendation for others in a similar situation.




BTW, you are quite fortunate your chip has survived thus far. Heat (and thermal cycles) reduce solid state chip life.



Glad it's fixed .


If it hits above 55 too often, you might want water cooling. Water cooling is quiet, but a water cooled case costs about $200. My next machine will be fan free and water cooled to avoid alomst all fan noise (only the low velocity chill fan) and eliminate dust buildup.

[IceBlaZe]

Water cooling, if goes wrong, ****s the entire system.

Water + Electricity... Also, it's very expensive and completely unneccesary for the common user.

Only if you are a die hard overclocker.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by starlifter
What cooler did you buy? It might be a good recommendation for others in a similar situation.

Spire 5T208B1H3T. 17.95 euros from the local shop. Link

If it hits above 55 too often, you might want water cooling. Water cooling is quiet, but a water cooled case costs about $200. My next machine will be fan free and water cooled to avoid alomst all fan noise (only the low velocity chill fan) and eliminate dust buildup.

I´ll think I´ll buy a new power supply, too. Might help cool things down even more.