SGOTM 07 - Chokonuts

[Ozbenno]

Originally Posted by Ozbenno

Sci Method from Liberalism would be nice but probably not an option since we lost Glibrary, Astronomy is our next best option I think (more beakers than Printing Press) so we need to trade up to here.

Here's what I posted earlier. In wishlist order I think Sci Method, Astronomy and Printing Press but Astronomy is probably the most realistic option. So we need to trade for Compass, Machinery and Optics. Hopefully with Paper and Philosophy.

[cubbiesin08]

Got it and will post shortly.

[cubbiesin08]

10 more turns:

Alex declared on Izzy

University and Oxford complete

Lost crabs to Elizabeth, so built aquaduct as well

Distant civ circles globe

Finish philosophy and start liberalism

I just realized that I left the scientists off to finish university and oxford - we need to turn them back on to get liberalism faster. Asoka and Elizabeth only need education to start working on liberalism so we need to get going on it - I also didn't trade them education so they couldn't beat us to liberalism.

HC and Freddy make peace

I get Elizabeth to trade us clams for free

I get Asoka to give us his map - we see 3 more civs to the east

[Ozbenno]

Did we trade Philosophy around?

Can I jump in ahead of you pholk? I'll be without Civ from tonight for a week or two, so may be my last chance to play!

[cubbiesin08]

I didn't trade philo yet - Asoka and Elizabeth already had it.

[Ozbenno]

I had a look at the save but didn't play as we need to get our tactics straight.

We need to employ our scientists back, that will give us Liberalism in 6 and a GP next turn. I would suggest merging whatever one we get.

Huayna will trade us Compass/Machinery for Paper/Philosophy. Probably a good deal. Trade Elizabeth and Asoka (or just Asoka if necessary) Education for Drama, Optics and whatever else we can get. We can then take Astronom from Liberalism (best idea I think). Another (possibly crazy) idea is to research Nationalism, trade for Music and take Military Tradition to try and get our DP with Asoka started, so when we hit Communism we can POA straight away.

Asoka will declare on various civs but we can't afford the price. We can gift him stone or marble for an eventual diplo bonus.

We should be able to get +9 with him, is that enough for a DP? Otherwise we need to get to Democracy and revolt to US. We should gift him a tech just before we want to DP up if he isn't at +4 tech trading bonus with us.

So the question is, what do we do, try for MT or Astronomy from Liberalism?

I won't have access to Civ for a couple of weeks. If everyone makes an effort to put as much info in their reports and some relevant piccis, I should be able to contribute to the discussion!

[Mighty Dwaarf]

I'd take Astro, Observattory to boost research and access to off continent trade routes better in long run.

[Ozbenno]

Good point about the observatory, I always forget about that being unlocked by Astronomy.

If we take Astro from Liberalism, should we try to get MT ourselves or just wait for an AI to get it? We still need 22 turns DP before Asoka will be our buddy for life.

[Mighty Dwaarf]

If we get Nationalism ourselves we could trade to Asoka and Wash and hopefully they will research MT whilst we carry on throught the bottom of the tech tree.

[McArine]

Could we possibly get another civ to declare on Asoka, and then go to war against that civ?

[Mighty Dwaarf]

We would get dilpo penalty with Asoka so definitely a no no.

[ngraner42]

I think I am up next and plan to play tonight. If I plan to do anything unexpected I will stop and post my ideas.

[ngraner42]

I saw that we were set to build research. In that case we should run 6 scientists. It will get Liberalism down to 5 turns with the loss of 24 food from our storehouse of 25. My thought is to do that and take Astronomy. After that we can build the forge in 1 turn due to stored up hammers and commence on an Observatory. After getting Liberalism and Astronomy we could then trade for whatever techs we can get. If the tech trading is tricky, I will stop for advice. I like the plan of Nationalism next for the DP. An alternative would be to potentially hold off tech trading until after Nationalism based on MD's idea to allow the AI to research MT.

[Mighty Dwaarf]

If the AI researches MT we can still get DP with them without getting MT ourselves, so we should look to trade Asoka or other PA possible civs Nationalism when we get it. We don't need MT for anything else so we can concentrate on other techs

[ngraner42]

Turn 0: Switched over to 6 scientists. My arithmetic was off, since Liberalism is in 5, we should lose only 15 food. We did not trade with Capac as it would give us a "you traded with our worst enemy" modifier with Frederick.
Turn 1: We get a GS and he puts his efforts into supporting our great city. Asoka gets Education, this may be tight.
Turn 2: Capac asks us to cut relations with the Germans, we refuse. Isabella and JC make peace with Kublai.
Turn 3: We trade Paper and Philosophy to Izzy for Machinery, Drama and 30gp. We trade Education to Elizabeth for Compass and 190gp. My hope was to trade Paper to Washington for Compass, but he changed his mind after the Izzy deal. I have just realized we don't have the prerequisites for Astronomy.

We have Liberalism in 1, but it would take 3 turns to research Optics. We can get Optics and Guilds off of Capac, but this will cost us a -1 with Frederick. It is really annoying that Washington changed his mind about trading with us based on WFYTBA. Should I grab Optics from Capac.

[Ozbenno]

I would make the trade. Frederick still seems to be way behind Asoka and Lizzie so I'm pretty sure we won't want to PA with him.

If we end up going for Nationalism, we should have an attempt at Taj Mahal and we should then research Military Tradition. Otherwise we will get to Communism but won't be able to PA up.

[ngraner42]

Good point Oz. I will play on.

[ngraner42]

Turn 4: We trade Paper and Drama to HC for Optics and 190gp. Surprisingly we do not get a -1 with Frederic, possibly since the -5 was only annoyed.
Turn 5: Liberalism completes and we get Astronomy. Nationalism is undertaken.
My computer turns off at this point due to a power failure. I reload the last save which is the one I posted; I am not sure why an autosave did not occur. I repeat the trade and click the button again.
Turn 5 (continued): We put the Forge in production and stop working scientists. The plan is to get a couple buildings out then go to Pacifism and work Scientists.
Turn 6: JC offers Gold for Crab; we gladly accept. Forge completes and Observatory is started. Elizabeth has Engineering available, but we hold off trading.
Turn 7: Kong Mio is built in a far away land.
Turn 8: zzz.
Turn 9: Izzy wants us to cancel deals with the Greeks, but that is just a little too scary. Observatory complete Theater started. Elizabeth will now trade Engineering and Guilds, but I hold off for discussion.
Turn 10: Theater complete. Globe theater started. Washington will now trade with us again.

I would recommend trading Elizabeth and Washington for Engineering and Guilds, switching to Pacifism for GP generation, continuing to build farms (I dumbly build a cottage, but converted it to a farm), and running scientists. I set the city to two scientists, but that can be adjusted further.

[Ozbenno]

We don't really need Engineering and onl want Guildsto get Banking. From here on it may be prudent to only trade with our potential PA buddy unless it is for a needed tech. So maybe go for Guilds with the weaker of the two only.

Pacifism after Globe is a good idea as we won't reall have much to build after then.

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Yes Pacisfism all the way. May only worry with Taj Mahal, I built this in the test game and ended up getting too many Great Artists after this point when Scientist is what we want.