Rise of Mankind 2.0beta released!

zappara · Apr 18, 2008

I have now packed the first beta release of Rise of Mankind 2.0. With this beta we can start testing things and find bugs so that I can fix everything for full release. This is true beta as I haven't even myself had time yet to play it more than first few turns.

I won't add this beta to download database, only provide download link in this thread - once beta testing is over, I'll upload it again and add download info to other places.

Beta download removed

READ THIS BEFORE YOU INSTALL 2.0BETA!

If you have v1.03 Rise of Mankind installed, go to your mods folder and rename Rise of Mankind folder to something else before you unzip v2.0 to mods folder (both versions have same file structure). This ensures that there won't be conflicts between old version and new beta and you can still continue playing on v1.03 if you want to. Installation instructions are in the readme file inside the zip file.

Known issues list

Religion icons not shown correctly on civ list on main screen (bug in font files)
Limited religion functions disabled, there was bugs in python (AI players never found religions) so I had to disable this feature
New civs color settings too close to other civ colors (confirmed that colors are close to each other but are actually different)
african cuirassier not shown correctly in pedia + missing buttons, most likely incorrect animation file (cuirassier disabled in 2.003)
random CTD early in game, cause unknown (found in 2.003)

Please keep all beta version discussion in this thread because this way it's easier for me to keep track of it and track bugs etc.
I will start new thread for v2.0 to mods section once we have good fully working mod. I will keep both 1.03 and 2.0 available so it's best to keep separate discussion threads for each version.

Unzip patch 2.005 to BtS/Mods folder and overwrite files when it asks for it.
Note that saved games from previous versions do not work in new version!

zappara · Apr 18, 2008

Version history

Version 2.005beta patch

Spoiler :

Version 2.004beta patch

Spoiler :

Version 2.003beta patch

Spoiler :

Version 2.002beta patch

Spoiler :

Version 2.0beta

Spoiler :

strategyonly · Apr 19, 2008

Taken care of.

Thx for the update, really appreciate that.

Matt0088 · Apr 19, 2008

Can you put the RevolutionDCM addon in the beta?

zappara · Apr 19, 2008

strategyonly said:
OK just tried it out and i get a crash each time when the religion Nagualism is founded with Calendar. Heres what i get (See pic) plus this:
Failed to allocate video memory. Please try reducing your graphics settings.
File: \main\Civilzation4\SDKs\Gamebryo2_0\CoreLibs\NiDX9Renenderer\NiDX9RendererTex
trueData.cpp, Line # 177.
Then it goes to another error for Runtime. And tries to crash to desktop.

2nd pic, has a status underneath it, how to get rid of that??

I'll have to check graphic defines war Nagualism.. maybe it wants to show movie file for it but can't find any...

2nd pic, what status you mean? Plotlist enhancements under unit icons? It's suppose to be there. There's couple settings for them in config file.

Matt0088 said:
Can you put the RevolutionDCM addon in the beta?

I think Kalimakhus will update his addon to work with this beta version soon. I haven't even had time to play test it myself or look what amount of python coding there is with RevolutionDCM that needs to be merged. I'll concentrate on tracking down bugs from beta version before I continue to add more stuff to it. Besides that addon is Kalimakhus' work and he's more familiar with it than I am.

And for first time in months I got some time to play Civ! :eek:

Kalimakhus · Apr 19, 2008

@Zappara

Glad to see this out. Downloading now. Feedback, as soon as I take it for test drive.

@Marr0088

Thanks for your interest in the Add-On. I will start working on updating it to work with RoM 2.0 soon. I however think it is better now to concentrate on beta testing the new RoM release so that any hidden bugs can squashed. It would be confusing to have the add-on now as it may introduce bugs of its own. It is also an opportunity to wait for more stable version of Revolution and hopefully DCM as well.

0100010 · Apr 19, 2008

Only reviewed the PEDIA and inspected some files so far, not gotten far into a game yet, but here are some things I have noticed.

- Changed: All Renaissance tech costs increased by 10%
- Changed: All Industrial tech costs increased by 30%
- Changed: All Modern time tech costs increased by 50%
- Changed: All Future era tech costs increased by 100%

It appears that you made changes to get early era techs (all that I have looked at so far) change so that a tech is more expensive that its most expensive pre-req, but you have not increase the general cost of era techs as described above.

Many later era techs are still do not follow the "cost more than most expensive pre-req" cost pattern, if you are aiming to do that.

According to the PEDIA, It's Impossible to build the Artesian Well. It becomes obsolete with Civil Service, yet it requires Invention to construct it. Invention has Civil Service as a Pre-Req.

The Physic AND requirement for Compulsory education is redundant. Thermodynamic is also and AND requirement, which already requires Physics. However my suggestion would be to drop the Thermodynamic requirement

There might be a few more redundant AND reqs the above was just the 1st one I noticed. I had listed several in my Tech change suggestions in another thread.

Some observation when I was playing the merged JPK's event w/ v1.03.
The Pirate events can get really irksome. With the stretched out tech time table & increased naval unit types, it can take a while before you have a ship type strong enough to take out the pirates.

War Chariots event expires way too early (also noticed from play on prior version) It had this problem in Vanilla BtS also though. It's too easy to hit classical techs before it is completed. Consider making it obsolete at Medieval era or middle Classical techs. Maybe just make it obsolete with Stirrup.

I'd still recommend to make Military Training and Sculpture Classical Techs,
Machinery, Canal Systems and Philosophy Medieval Techs,
Architecture, & Perspective Renaissance Era Techs,
Photography, Realism & Corporation Industrial Era Techs,

Other era change techs recommendations for Ind. to Modern & Modern to Future I still have list in my post in the other thread.

Re-name Chivalry unit to Chivalric Knights or something else. (just don't name it same as tech)
Re-name Unique French Chivalry unit to Knights Hospitaller,
Re-name Unique German Chivalry to Teutonic Knights
Re-name existing Teutonic Knight (Heavy Swordsman) to something else (Teutonic Swordsman?)

Remove the happy face bonuses from the Forge/Mint/Iron Forge
(The Jewelery does this job, you should lose them anyway on Steel Mill upgrade) It's job isn't to make people happy, but to crank up production.

The food bonus for the Iron Forge doesn't make much sense to me and seems unbalanced. I began playing games as them just to test this.
Iron forge w/ Iron: 25% + Fisherman's Hut (crab/ + fish: 10%) + Butchery (3 meats +15%) You already have a +50% food in the early game. Even though population costs 3 food each, now a 2 food tile with the +50% bonus covers the cost. Hittite population can easily soar. My average cities population was double most AI (even AI's higher in score, while playing on Deity)

Bonuses to the Base Commerce Rate should be rare, perhaps only available from Wonders.
BCR of a city = total coins in worked plots + total coin bonuses on buildings
+ total trade route yield (after trade route bonuses)

Base Commerce Rate Bonus buildings (remember base commerce rate bonus effects everything)
I would drop or change this bonus to something else on all of these.
10% Accelerator
25% Commercial Airport
10% Deep Space Research Institute
25% Design Studio
50% E-Bank
15% Glass smith
10% Oil Refinery

Add a mouse over highlight to the food production so we can see the percentage bonus/overflow breakdown. (similar to hammer production)

iyyillius · Apr 19, 2008

Sweet,

I knew once i got RevelutionDMCfor RoM installed correctly that you would have this done Zap. :lol:

BTW kalikhamus i got it running and no problems so far.

I'm gonna finish the game i'm playing now first then i'll get started on Ver.2.0

(my game just started getting really fun).

I'll have some feed back on 2.0 in a couple of days.(hafta go outta town on buisness till wednesday so i won't have internet access)

zappara · Apr 19, 2008

0100010 said:
It appears that you made changes to get early era techs (all that I have looked at so far) change so that a tech is more expensive that its most expensive pre-req, but you have not increase the general cost of era techs as described above.

Actually tech costs have been increased twice for 2.0, first by the amount on those percentages and after that went through most of them again and adjusted values mostly based on your feedback.

Modern and future eras do not follow always the rule "pre-req should be always cheaper" as there's some overlapping between eras (flight techs easier to research than many others). This was pure design choice from my part as I wanted some techs to be actually cheaper than their pre-reqs, for example in real life principles or scientific formulas are hard to find but once found, the applications are easy to implement. There is though some techs that still need their values checked but can do that bit later once have some feedback from actual gameplay.

0100010 said:
According to the PEDIA, It's Impossible to build the Artesian Well. It becomes obsolete with Civil Service, yet it requires Invention to construct it. Invention has Civil Service as a Pre-Req.

It becomes obsolete at Civil Engineering (industrial era) not Civil Service, so you're mistaken this time

0100010 said:
The Physic AND requirement for Compulsory education is redundant. Thermodynamic is also and AND requirement, which already requires Physics. However my suggestion would be to drop the Thermodynamic requirement

There might be a few more redundant AND reqs the above was just the 1st one I noticed. I had listed several in my Tech change suggestions in another thread.

There might be some redundant AND reqs left, but most are purposely there if certain tech has multiple ways to reach it, it might have AND requirements that must be met also. Even if there's some actually redundant, it doesn't affect gameplay, might even make it easier to see what you need to find before you can research those techs.

0100010 said:
Some observation when I was playing the merged JPK's event w/ v1.03.
The Pirate events can get really irksome. With the stretched out tech time table & increased naval unit types, it can take a while before you have a ship type strong enough to take out the pirates.

War Chariots event expires way too early (also noticed from play on prior version) It had this problem in Vanilla BtS also though. It's too easy to hit classical techs before it is completed. Consider making it obsolete at Medieval era or middle Classical techs. Maybe just make it obsolete with Stirrup.

I haven't encountered Pirates event yet, so could you enlighten me more about what happened? I was about to look into events more on next weeks and add my first own events.. There's probably some balance left to do on existing events anyway so could adjust them while I add some new events.

0100010 said:
I'd still recommend to make Military Training and Sculpture Classical Techs,
Machinery, Canal Systems and Philosophy Medieval Techs,
Architecture, & Perspective Renaissance Era Techs,
Photography, Realism & Corporation Industrial Era Techs

No, I like them as they are

Photography was developed on renaissance era, philosophy was classical era (aristoteles etc), sculpture (pyramid+sphinx+statues) was ancient etc.

0100010 said:
The food bonus for the Iron Forge doesn't make much sense to me and seems unbalanced. I began playing games as them just to test this.
Iron forge w/ Iron: 25% + Fisherman's Hut (crab/ + fish: 10%) + Butchery (3 meats +15%) You already have a +50% food in the early game. Even though population costs 3 food each, now a 2 food tile with the +50% bonus covers the cost. Hittite population can easily soar. My average cities population was double most AI (even AI's higher in score, while playing on Deity)

Iron Forge was combined to my mod without any changes with the Hittite civ. Hittites were experts on iron working and their civilization flourished in harsh environment.. I think they ended up in civil war or something that weakened them too much. Anyway, I'll add that building on my check list and see if I can make it bit less overpowering unique building.

0100010 said:
Add a mouse over highlight to the food production so we can see the percentage bonus/overflow breakdown. (similar to hammer production)

I've wondered why it isn't working, wasn't it working feature in normal BtS? Don't know if it's hardcoded in SDK or done in maininterface python file - maininterface isn't exactly easy to edit, I've lost countless hours there when merging other mod components and then loosing whole UI and then try to find the bug that caused it. I try to avoid editing this file as much as I can. Though I would like to have that food production shown

Jackknife35 · Apr 19, 2008

I just found this, Mansa Musa was the first to discover Masonry, and therefore discovered Amun-Ra. While when I click to talk to him, it will show the symbol for Amun-Ra in the pop-up, but not on the actual scoreboard. You can see in this picture, there is just a blank spot where the Amun-Ra symbol should be on the scoreboard.

On another note, I'm not sure if this was accidental or not, but is the Hellenic Wiseman supposed to have a speed of 2?

Edit: NEVERMIND!

zappara · Apr 19, 2008

Jackknife35 said:
I just found this, Mansa Musa was the first to discover Masonry, and therefore discovered Amun-Ra. While when I click to talk to him, it will show the symbol for Amun-Ra in the pop-up, but not on the actual scoreboard. You can see in this picture, there is just a blank spot where the Amun-Ra symbol should be on the scoreboard.

On another note, I'm not sure if this was accidental or not, but is the Hellenic Wiseman supposed to have a speed of 2?

Check known issues list, bug with religion icons is mentioned there - it's problem with font files. I spent 6+ hours on friday editing those files and didn't get it yet to work completely. There must be some pixel still on wrong spot and it is very time consuming operation when trying to fix it. If someone is good with editing those font files and wants to try fixing this bug that would make me happy.

Each religion is unique in this mod, buildings have different modifiers, some religions got national wonders, some world wonders etc. You'll have to check pedia for all changes and yes Hellenic Wiseman is suppose to have speed of 2.

0100010 · Apr 19, 2008

Lots of new religion specific wonders, though none for Christianity And Confucianism
Notre Dame or Sistine Chapel could be a Christianity wonder,
Gouzijian / Imperial Academy could be for Confucianism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guozijian

Probable effects would be related to science/government/espionage

zappara · Apr 19, 2008

@0100010

I don't think Imperial Academy would be good choice:
1) I don't see how it's related to Confucianism and it could work better as normal National wonder
2) I don't think Confucianism should get government bonuses from wonder: "Confucianism is reluctant to employ laws. In a society where relationships are considered more important than the laws themselves, if no other power forces government officers to take the common interest into consideration, corruption and nepotism may arise. As government officers' salary was often far lower than the minimum required to raise a family, Chinese society was frequently affected by those problems. Even if some means to control and reduce corruption and nepotism have been successfully used in China, Confucianism is criticized for not providing such a means itself." - wikipedia.
3) Confucianism already gets science bonus from their Confucian Academy building and from Confucian monastery.

I've been looking Confucianism sites for some time now for good wonder options. Got few choices now:

The Forest of Steles
Fuzi Miao (confucian temple so maybe not that special after all)
... there was some 3rd choice but can't find it now from my notes

As I currently see it Confucianism doesn't need extra wonder BUT that can be "balanced" with something else that boosts this religion. Unique religions, that's the goal.

Your choices for christian great wonder are not exactly what I was looking for, not many pilgrims go to see Notre Dame or Sistine Chapel... and because christianity has dozens of cathedrals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cathedrals) all around world, choosing one for religious wonder is too difficult.. so again, I've been thinking something different for Christianity.

Jackknife35 · Apr 19, 2008

zappara said:
Check known issues list, bug with religion icons is mentioned there - it's problem with font files. I spent 6+ hours on friday editing those files and didn't get it yet to work completely. There must be some pixel still on wrong spot and it is very time consuming operation when trying to fix it. If someone is good with editing those font files and wants to try fixing this bug that would make me happy.

Each religion is unique in this mod, buildings have different modifiers, some religions got national wonders, some world wonders etc. You'll have to check pedia for all changes and yes Hellenic Wiseman is suppose to have speed of 2.

Oh, okay

I love this mod and i'll keep you posted if I find any real issues. :goodjob:

Lomion · Apr 19, 2008

Siam map color (culture) is white (england?) while civ name color is blue.

U1: Also I think Assyrian (or whatever the new other race is called) is the same color as Portugal .. map color might (culture) might be different but name is the same

U2: I was able to convert to Zoroastrianism even though I had a Legal Civic of "Tribal Law" which states "No state religion" ... either the tribal law civic description is wrong or its not being handled correctly like "free religion" (Though to be honest I can't figure out why "legal system" has a religious outlook on it . .vassalage also has the same note and most vassal states are very religious)

U3: In svedopedia the worker entry is blank. Also for some reason my Absyrian (or whatever the new race is) workers don't any action buttons 75% of the time. The keyboard shortcuts still work for assigning them tasks but nothing I can click. NOTE: I can get buttons if I select the worker, then select svedopedia, and then exit svedopedia. I have to do this every time I select a worker.

U4: Zoroastrian Fire Temple needs a better svedopedia entry .. looks like it was cut and paste from the generic civ4 temple entry; should be specific

U5: I CTD a couple hours in around AD20 (Turn 432). See screenshot. Also I have no idea what those red text codes are in the dialogue / chat log (same screenshot) .. my guess is you left debugging on. Note that I reload and continue (and I make it past the CTD .. might have been one of those fun random ones)

U6: This might be related to U2 but none of the AI's ever converted to ANY RELIGION unless they founded it.

U7: Inquisition needs a text key ... when you discover you get TXT_KEY_CIVIC_INQUISITION_STRATEGY ... also any chance we could change the Christian missionaries in modern period or later to guys in suits to represent the dudes that knock on my door every Sunday afternoon

.... as a civic the inquisition is nice but needs some work ... def should also suffer research penalty (maybe -5%) to reflect historical the inquisition hurt research as many free thinkers were killed (though shouldn't be more than 5% because monastic research flourished). Also if possible the inquisitor unit should depend on actually using the inquisition civic (not just researching it)

U8: 553 685 ... one of those was year other was turn when I did another CTD (dont' remember and I'm tired so not sure what was what .... going to sleep). Not many noticeable bugs (other than above) but very unstable ... 2 CTD in 3 hours is crazy .. I haven't had that many CTD's in a couple months prior to tonight

Jackknife35 · Apr 20, 2008

Lomion said:
U2: I was able to convert to Zoroastrianism even though I had a Legal Civic of "Tribal Law" which states "No state religion" ... either the tribal law civic description is wrong or its not being handled correctly like "free religion" (Though to be honest I can't figure out why "legal system" has a religious outlook on it . .vassalage also has the same note and most vassal states are very religious)

This is my best guess: Usually when you have a religion, certain techs and civics will give you bonuses based on that religion, like if you have confucianism and you build the Spiral Minaret it says like +2 Science for every city that is [Confucian]. I think it's just saying that you won't get bonuses because you don't have a religion.

zappara · Apr 20, 2008

Lomion said:
U7: Inquisition needs a text key ... when you discover you get TXT_KEY_CIVIC_INQUISITION_STRATEGY ... also any chance we could change the Christian missionaries in modern period or later to guys in suites to represent the dudes that knock on my door every Sunday afternoon .... as a civic the inquisition is nice but needs some work ... def should also suffer research penalty (maybe -5%) to reflect historical the inquisition heard research as many free thinkers were killed (though shouldn't be more than 5% because monastic reseach flourished). Also if possible the inquisitor unit should depend on actually using the inquisition civic (not just researching it)

I had in early test versions zCivics component that was supposed to limit units to certain civics, but that component isn't working right so I removed it.

The red messages are from tech conquest component, each time you conquer enemy city, you get boost to your research.. though not sure if all those red messages were supposed to be seen, have to check that component. Edit: Seems debug messages were left on by default, disabled them now and will include it to next fix.

Pedia will be lacking stuff, though people can speed up fixing pedia by providing me entry texts (like some have done

) so I won't have to go look around good texts for each new object. I do add pedia but it's not on top of my list of things to do. I think all religious buildings have more or less generic pedias...

Civ colors were combined as they were set for those civs in other mods, thought they were good and tested values so I didn't change them.. I guess I'll have to check them.

Thanks for reporting those other issues too, I'll check/fix them soon.

ersner · Apr 20, 2008

2.0 version of the mod does not work properly with my BtS at all, when i start the game there are no interface windows (the main screen where the units appear works ok, however). In "advanced start" the screen goes black and the interface windows have no content in them.

I have BtS version 3.13 so i think it should work ok ( RoM 1.03 and earlier worked ok).

zappara · Apr 20, 2008

@ersner

That's odd as I'm running it on BtS. I was more concerned if it would work properly on Complete edition as that Civ version has had those missing UI problems more often. Could you tell what language version of BtS you got? Or are you running it on Vista? and did you rename v1.03 RoM folder to something else before you unzipped 2.0 beta to mods folder?

ersner · Apr 20, 2008

I bought my copy of BtS in supermarket in Warsaw, Poland. Maybe it is different somehow to the original version, although the patch with polish language interface was included on a separate cd-rom for optional install.

The languge set in the options window is English.
My windows version is polish (Windows XP).
I also have Blue Marble installed.

Data in "about this build":

Civ version: 3.13
Save version: 3.01
Build version: 3.0.0.1 (81539)
Build Date: Fri Sep 21 20:16:18 2007

Rise of Mankind 2.0beta released!

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